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Polishing a body die?

 
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  #57  
Old 08-20-2013, 06:36 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Let me try this one Larry.
-If you adjust the body die down carefully to just sneak into your bump, you're doing as good as you can with that die(good results or bad).
-If you go past this a schmidge, and depending on your shoulder angle & clearances, it's possible to lose that normal shoulder bump, as the shoulder-body area is taking energy to counter the bump. The body wants to squeeze the shoulder back forward. And if you pull a case and measure at that point, you might get the notion that your case needs FURTHER insertion to bump.
-So, if you now adjust the die down further, you reach a point of re-forming the case body, and yes, your bump returns(but not with any precision/consistency). The side effect you might notice here, is excess sizing low on the case(cause you're trying to re-form the poor thing).

Bumping can be tricky. Throw different lubes into it, and different presses, and precision in bumping can amount to local skill..
I have everything hammered out just right, for each chamber, and I keep every tool in a kit for each chamber. This includes separate dies, shell holders, any shims, gizzys, etc.
I like custom dies and they're actually less expensive than the top factory dies.
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  #58  
Old 08-20-2013, 07:20 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

It just happens that a thread was just started here, and a new reloader illustrates my point above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerus View Post
I have tight match chamber and when I use my body die to re-size the bodies, most of the time it leaves me with a fairly difficult to close bolt. I called Redding to ask why their die would not resize my brass, and they said, that because of my chamber I need to turn my die down incrementally until the brass fit in with just a very small amount of resistance. I have done that and now the brass fits in there perfectly.
He just went a schmidge past where he needed to be with the die.
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  #59  
Old 08-20-2013, 07:58 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Mikecr .....

- You should not be able to "feel" the bolt close on your handloads - not even a little bit.

- I don't know what a smidge measures, but I suspect the dimension of most smidges would account for inconsistent results. (It's much more accurate to deal with thousandths of an inch.)

- A case shoulder should NEVER have lube on it - not even a little bit.

- Your case necks should have the absolute least amount of lube possible.

- If you "Measure" your shoulder clearance, you'll quickly see how easy it is to get consistent results.
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  #60  
Old 08-20-2013, 08:16 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrywillis View Post
Mikecr .....

- You should not be able to "feel" the bolt close on your handloads - not even a little bit.

- A case shoulder should NEVER have lube on it - not even a little bit.

- Your case necks should have the absolute least amount of lube possible.
Been reloading for 40+ years. I knew the concern about loading the bolt with pressure could negatively affect consistency and accuracy. Although I sometimes allow the faintest hint of bolt closing resistance before bumping the shoulder back.

Never read or heard about the no lube on the lube on the case shoulder recommendation. I suppose that's to avoid indentations on the shoulder while resizing? I usually lightly lube my case necks after cleaning the carbon off and resizing with bushing dies.

Last edited by phorwath; 08-20-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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  #61  
Old 08-20-2013, 09:23 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

One thing I do notice is that between Larry and Bart all other opinion is stifled and stompped on .
There is nothing wrong with having very slight resistance as the bolt closes been doing it that way for ever . At least you know you have not got excess " HEAD CLEARANCE "
I don't see BR shooters resizing the case body after every shot which is what you would have to do to maintain a perfect shoulder clearance anyway on every shot so it's going to tighten progressivly anyway shot after shot .
I think the big problem here is you don't need some expensive tool to do it that way .
Some reloaders are so fanatical that they NEED to measure everything and need that number to quote to the world to convince themselves that there is no other way .
I don't have a problem with that as one size does not fit all and everyone has their favourite way to do things but notice how it's always the fanatic that says there is only one way .
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  #62  
Old 08-20-2013, 09:34 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

My issue with any bolt binding on chambered rounds is, the bolt won't lock up to the exact same place for each shot. This is a common issue with tight fitting bottleneck cases in rifles whose bolt faces are not squared up shooting previously fired cases with out of square case heads. However, if one accepts the accuracy such processes produce, fine. I'm only mentioning a pit fall.

More and more benchresters are full length sizing their fired cases bumping shoulders back about .001" and sizing case bodies down the same amount; check this link out:

6PPC Cartridge Guide

Then pay close attention to the part that reads:

Quote:
Most top 6PPC competitors run their ammo at pretty high pressures. Such pressures demand that cases be full-length sized each time they are loaded. But the trick is sizing the case just enough to allow proper feeding/extraction and no more. To achieve this perfect fit, nearly all the "top guns" use custom dies, precisely fitted to the dimensions of fired brass. Typically, a custom sizing die will reduce the case diameter at the shoulder .00075" to .001". The die will also allow for a little bit of shoulder bump. Nearly all the top shooters use bushings for neck-sizing. Having a variety of bushing allows you to compensate for brass that becomes work-hardened. You can also use bushings to tune loads for different bullets or conditions (tighter "grip" tends to increase pressure).
The top competitors shooting rifles of their shoulder in position matches have been winning them and setting records with proper full length sized cases for decades. Their ammo in their guns shoot just as accurate as the long range benchrest rigs do.

I've always lubed case shoulders; necks, too. Nary a problem doing so that caused any bad things whatsoever.
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  #63  
Old 08-21-2013, 03:07 AM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
My issue with any bolt binding on chambered rounds is, the bolt won't lock up to the exact same place for each shot. This is a common issue with tight fitting bottleneck cases in rifles whose bolt faces are not squared up shooting previously fired cases with out of square case heads. However, if one accepts the accuracy such processes produce, fine. I'm only mentioning a pit fall.

More and more benchresters are full length sizing their fired cases bumping shoulders back about .001" and sizing case bodies down the same amount; check this link out:

6PPC Cartridge Guide

Then pay close attention to the part that reads:



The top competitors shooting rifles of their shoulder in position matches have been winning them and setting records with proper full length sized cases for decades. Their ammo in their guns shoot just as accurate as the long range benchrest rigs do.

I've always lubed case shoulders; necks, too. Nary a problem doing so that caused any bad things whatsoever.
Bart B, your comments really surprise me and I'm glad that you acknowledge the BR shooters and their winning and setting record with proper full length sizing dies for decades and their guns shoot just as accurate as the LR Benchrest rifles.

I'm sure you go back and correct this post about the new record of .0077" as just being
luck as you called in and case you forget here it is

Such groups are mostly luck, in my opinion, otherwise they would be commonplace. They happen about as often as the largest group fired by the rifle and shooter producing the record smallest one. All the other groups' sizes are between those extremes. Having once put 5 shots into about an inch at 1000 yard using aperture sights slung up in prone, there's no way I would claim that any sort of accuracy excellence; it was pure luck as the shots were not called that close together.
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