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Polishing a body die?

 
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  #71  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:00 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

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Originally Posted by TOM H View Post
You may shoot all the small moa at practice but for some reason you can't shot them at a match and in a LR hunting rifle first shot counts. That's all I got to say.
Well, neither can anyone else shoot groups off their shoulder slung up in any position the size of ther test groups. We've got a heart pumping blood that quivers muscles holding our bones supporting the rifle. It's gonna have a 3/4 MOA area on target were its aiming point bounces around in. Most of the time a shot's got off somewhere inside that "wobble" area. Don't long range hunters have a heart, too?

Then our bodies are not as repeatable in position and resistance to recoil from shot to shot as free recoiling benchrest rifles virtually untouched by humans; that adds another 1/2 MOA error or more. And, with metallic sights, we cannot see subtle wind changes as easy as with a scope; that adds another 1/2 MOA of error. Add all these to a rifle and ammo test group size.

Anyone who thinks folks can shoot rifles off their shoulder without artifical support as accurate as they do in free recoil is ignorant of the real limits of marksmanship afield. Take a look at last year's Nationals' scores in high power rifle matches listed in this link:

NRA Competitive Shooting Programs|NRA National Outdoor Rifle & Pistol Championships Results

Pay close attention to the winners and high master's scores. Few scores shot 600 yards and further are perfect with at least 80% of the shots in the X rings (6" at 600, 10" at further ranges) with special attention to the 1000 yard ones; those shot inside 2 MOA.

I don't think any long range competitor can put more than 10% of their first shots at a known range past 600 yards into a 1 MOA circle. What percentage of the long range hunters do that at an unknown range without a previously established zero at the site?
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  #72  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:04 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

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Originally Posted by apexmtnman View Post
20 rounds in 3.325 inches at 800 yards
That was done shooting a Palma rifle slung up in prone with bags under the stock's fore end and toe. A 20X target scope was used. Wobble area on paper was somewhat under an inch. Not what's typical in a Palma match using metallic sights.
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  #73  
Old 08-21-2013, 09:40 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

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Originally Posted by apexmtnman View Post
TOM H what does bench rest shooting have to do with long range hunting? What does shooting a 60-80 lb rail gun at a target have to do with long range hunting? Barts discipline of shooting 600-800-1000 yards with a sling and open sights has a heck of a lot more to do with field shooting than bench rest any day. Until you can put 20 rounds in 3.325 inches at 800 yards like Bart has then maybe I'll listen to you, until then I think I'll listen to Bart as I know he is very knowledgeable and has helped me with a lot of reloading questions by just reading his posts.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...c/Uow_LL-o2dwJ
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Bart's never put 20rd in 3.325" group at F-Class match that I know of and if he did he have world record score which would be 200-20x. this is what a record score look like 200-13x it's still a 20" group.

I've never shot a 1000yd BR match or a rail gun and all I do is shooting few hunting rifles plus few varmint rifles. Just so you understand something I'm not saying anything I won't say to Bart in person so I'm not talking to hear myself talk and rest assured Bart knows that.
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  #74  
Old 08-21-2013, 10:57 PM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post

I don't think any long range competitor can put more than 10% of their first shots at a known range past 600 yards into a 1 MOA circle. What percentage of the long range hunters do that at an unknown range without a previously established zero at the site?
Bart, I've watched many times guys who would not set foot at a competition put rounds well inside 1 moa well beyond a 1000 yards cold bore then proceed to repeat the process and from a rifle that is easily hunted with. I can't count the times I've seen first round cold bore round put on target at a thousand yards under half MOA. My buddy put 6 rounds inside five inches at 1030 yards, one cold bore shot per week from a 12lb 338 RUM of the ground, his antelope last year took a bullet at just under a 1000 yards within 2 inches of his aim point right above the heart, I called the wind for him.

This is Long Range Hunting, we shoot for that cold bore nuts on shot which is a completely different discipline and skill set it's just unfortunate your already to good to learn this skill.

You are so set that no one can shoot as good as you did one time in your life that you've stopped looking around and learning so you hunt people down that do indeed shoot better than you do and try to find loop holes and invent ways to make sure no one can ever shoot as good as that one group.
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  #75  
Old 08-22-2013, 04:25 AM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOM H View Post
Bart's never put 20rd in 3.325" group at F-Class match that I know of
As I've told you before, I've never shot an F-Class match. I was just testing that rifle and ammo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post
Bart, I've watched many times guys who would not set foot at a competition put rounds well inside 1 moa well beyond a 1000 yards cold bore then proceed to repeat the process and from a rifle that is easily hunted with.
I've seen long range competitors do the same thing many times at 1000 with their first shot, but no more than 10% of them.
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  #76  
Old 08-22-2013, 05:37 AM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigngreen View Post

This is Long Range Hunting, we shoot for that cold bore nuts on shot which is a completely different discipline and skill set it's just unfortunate your already to good to learn this skill.

.
Well said , I have to pay that comment .

Dam I wish I had said that.
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  #77  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:38 AM
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Re: Polishing a body die?

[QUOTE=Bart B;840973 I've seen long range competitors do the same thing many times at 1000 with their first shot, but no more than 10% of them.[/QUOTE]

Well, all that proves is that they should not hunt at long range because they have not developed the skills to cold bore shoot at those ranges!

Just because you won't learn to cold bore shoot at a higher percentage does not mean that a lot of others can't who are still able to learn.
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