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Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

 
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  #1  
Old 11-25-2009, 11:24 PM
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Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

Well, I am not sure what to do next? I'll start off with all the details of the load & rifle.

24 1/2" (cut down from 26" originally) #2 contour Ted Gaillard barrel chambered in 264 Win Mag. Chamber is throated long for a COL of 3.495 with a 140gr Accubond. I seat the bullet so my COL is 3.480.

Gaillard

Barrel is fitted to a Sako AV action that has been trued & trigger set to 2 1/2 lbs. Barreled action is bedded to a Brown Precision stock. A 4.5x14x40mm LR Leupold B&C reticule. Scope is mounted with Talley high rings & mounts (high mounts fit me much better than low mounts).



The load is as follows.
Win brass
215F match primer
140gr Nosler Accubond
72gr H870 (down from 74gr as I was getting pressure signs & extraction issues with new brass)

Now I was having problems at 74gr as described above, so I dropped down to 72gr. Now new brass seems to work fine at 72gr, no extraction issues, also the fired new case will go back into the chamber no problem.

My once fired brass (out of this rifle) is a different story. I first thought it was a trim issue because my first 20 rounds I didn't trim & was over the 2.500. It was not by much though, 2.509.

The next 20 once fired rounds were trimmed back to 2.486. Today's field test came up with the same thing, a little tug after the bolt is lifted to extract the shell. I am getting light scratching above the belt on the once fired rounds?

Funny thing is the measurements on the new brass & once fired seem to be the same above the belt. .513 above belt & .493 at the shoulder.

Normally I neck size cases, but I decided to F/L size these. Reason being when I was working up a load for the rifle, I wasn't as good at keeping brass separate as I should have been. I knew some of the loads were a bit warm. Now most of the warm loads brass was pitched, but rather than pitch the rest I figured a F/L sizing would get me back in check for the most part.

Now if it was the odd once fired round that was sticking, I'd write that off to a hot load case that got mixed in the batch of brass, but it seems I am getting sticky extraction each load with the once fired brass.

Would my load still be too hot? I am 2gr less than max in the Nosler manual, 6.3gr from max in the old Hornady manual, 4gr from max in the old Speer manual & 1gr from max in the Hodgdon manual.

With my load I am right around the 3100 FPS range according to my chrony. I checked my balance beam scale to verify it was correct with another one I have & found it to be good.

I am hoping I have over looked something & don't have to drop my charge anymore. Does anyone have an idea out there?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2009, 09:31 AM
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Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

Quickload brings me to the same velocity(3109fps), and 55Kpsi.
SAAMI max is 62Kpsi, and nothing jumps out as a problem with your load.

It almost sounds like the brass is too soft.. Or that there is not enough barrel steel around the chamber.
Is this a magnum action?

Could it be bolt timing?
Normally the case would break free of it's grip by full bolt turn.

I don't have an answer.
But I would focus more towards the gun build, and brass, than load.
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2009, 11:08 AM
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Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 2,133
Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

I had and still have a very similar problem with a custom 300 RUM with minimum spec chamber.

New brass with handloads feed and eject normally. Once fired cases that are reloaded feed fine but are difficult to extract. Difficult enough that it requires a few taps from a cleaning rod that is inserted from the muzzle.

I've been around and around with the smith who believes that it is caused by the brass. However, I used Federal brass and Remington brass from different lots and get the exact same results. I was using Redding S type FL dies and switched to a Forester competition FL die; same problem.

According to Redding, who I emailed the reamer specs to, the chamber is just a bit too tight and will require custom made dies. According to the gunsmith, he has chambered other rifles with the same reamer and they are not having this problem so it can't be chamber size.

Remember - factory new brass feeds and ejects fine even with maximum loads so I tend to agree with Redding. In my opinion, the chamber needs to be recut with a more generous reamer. The factory brass works because it is slightly smaller in dimensions than a properly FL sized case. That's my guess anyway.
Not sure what is causing your problem but maybe my experience will lend a little insight to a possible cause. Good luck

VH

Last edited by Varmint Hunter; 11-26-2009 at 11:11 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2009, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Alberta,Canada
Posts: 51
Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

Im curious tooo to find out
had a Winchester chambered in 300 bee and it did the same thing ,,,also noted small scratches in front of the web.....i thought it was the previous owners cleaning regiment that did this.
but if i lubed the case in front of the web extraction was fine
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2009, 09:23 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: NC, oceanfront
Posts: 3,296
Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

The common factor so far is new builds with magnum cartridges.
Are you guys sure you have the needed barrel steel around your chambers?

My basis;
On firing, large chambers present a large area for pressure to exert. The chamber expands, and of course the brass with it. Normally the brass springs back, and the chamber definitely will.
If there is not enough barrel steel around these large area chambers, the expansion increases, the springback of the chamber follows, but the brass can't springback so much. This leaves an interference fit similar to brass in a body die(hence the observed scratching near the webs).
In a sense, your chamber becomes a die, and your brass is somewhat stuck in it.

Factory magnum guns use larger barrel tennons to account for this.
A good example, is a Savage WSM action. It's not like the others.

Just tossing in something that would be easy to overlook.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2009, 09:54 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 83
Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

It sounds as if your dies aren't sizing the enough in front of the belt. I had a similar problem with my 338 Win Mag. The solution was a separate body die that squeezed the case a wee bit more in front of the belt. This was several years ago & I don't remember who made that body die, but until I sold it a few years later, I sized the body & neck separately, with different dies. Mine was a custom with a tight chamber too.
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2009, 10:07 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: California
Posts: 458
Re: Once fired brass sticking (that was fired from the same rifle?)

Anach. may be onto something. Check the special mag die on this site:

Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment
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