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Number of reloads effect impact

 
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  #1  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:58 AM
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Number of reloads effect impact

I was wondering if the number of times brass has been reloaded effects impacts in any way. I keep them all sorted for number of firings. I trim when they get past max length. But will velocity and impacts be the same between a twice fired brass and a 4 times fired brass before retrimming? I know the simple answer is to try it, but I haven't had the time to experiment with this. Also will these 4 fired brass impact the same as the 5th after I have trimmed? thanks
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:36 AM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

I believe the Most correct way to say this is every time you fire your brass the case capacity gets slightly more. Brass is moved around and we even trim for OAL. Well that brass will change POI because case cap has changed (Everything is to outside dimensions so less material same outside dimensions means more case cap).

The Flash Holes get slightly larger with each firing and the web gets pushed back as well, primer pockets get loose.

Precision shooting is not about your load and rifle combination (although a big part) it is about consistency. You can not be consistent with the above mentioned faults.

The Wrench in the works: Take Your brass that you have CAREFULLY ensured is Identicle. You have 100,000 pieces and you need 10. Check them for everything to ensure they are perfect. Take them to a lab where they have expensive tools that I dont even know about. Ask them if all 10 are identicle. I bet even OAL will be different because they might measure in pico Meters when you measure in ten thousandthsn of an inch.

The Point is there is a lot that is out of our hands, but the simple things that we can control easily lets control. You are doing a good thing by sorting brass by times fired. Will it change your POI? I bet You Cant shoot well enough to tell. (No disrespect but not sure anyone could tell 2x for 3x.)

Bench rest shooters shoot 1/10th moa and i do not believe your could really tell on their targets either. But then again I will get someone who says your POI will change 4.723 MOA per firing.

To Sum Up.
Do what You can do and what is easy to make sure Round 1 is identical to round 2. The longer your shots the more you care.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:05 AM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

I guess what I am asking is lets say I have a good load. .308 win 44g varget 175 smk. I have a good seating depth and this load works for me. Lets say I have batches of brass in 20's. They all start off as close to the same as I can get them. I start building data on long range targets and recording them in my book. Lets say I go to shoot the same 650 yard target at the same elevation at the same temperature but now that same brass has been reloaded 3 more times. Will the impacts be the same as the first loading, (by first I mean first after fire forming the brass.)
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:08 AM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

I have gone to annealing competition brass every firing mostly because I am not organized enough to keep brass sorted as to the number of firings.
As the hardness of the brass changes each firing so does the neck tension so does the POI.
I recently bought what has been the worst batch of winchester brass I have ever used. The hardness of the brass varied alot from case to case. Loads would shoot good at 100yds but the es. was sometimes 100fps. After annealing the es. came down into the single digits. Groups will stay under .5moa past 1000yds now.
I wouldn't say that all brass in all rifles will have the same sensitivity to neck tension but mine sure show it.
Cliff
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:02 AM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

Annealing Your brass (in this case) is like putting mud in potholes. You have to do it often or the holes continue to get big, but it does smooth out the road. I do it every 3 firings. But Ill repeat what i said before only a benchrest master (and maybe) would be able to tell the difference between 2x brass and 3x brass. Do your best to stay organized but life happens.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:02 AM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

I have done a lot of work in this area with my 308. I have found that I can get 8-10 reloads using Lapua with good ES without doing anything except trimming after 4 or 5 reloads. I found that the neck tension of the dye effects this. I seems the greater the tension, the more variability as the brass is worked. I size down .001-002" max and do not use an expander. I can feel a difference in neck tension if it occurs and put that brass aside. Lapua is the most consistent I have tried and I now use it exclusively. I have found Winchester brass to to be thinner by a couple of thousandths and much harder to control neck tension with repeated reloading. Annealing helps a lot as you have found.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:18 PM
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Re: Number of reloads effect impact

The question lacks a critical qualifier: Your sizing
To reload your brass, you sized it.
How much?
What are you changing?
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