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New .22 Cal Matchking

 
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2005, 11:53 AM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

VH
I've got 4 rifles in 223 with 6.5 twist. They shoot super down to 52 grain bullets! FWIW. And FWIW I've won a ton of stuff with 90 jlks. I"m not sure the 90 sierra with a lower BC has any real benefit-- IE I can drive the 80 faster and make up for it,because the 90 JLK with a higher BC only has a small margin that makes it better than an 80 JLK. Even beat Tubb with my 90s at 600 once upon a time....

Jeff
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2005, 11:55 AM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Brian-- real life info if it helps any. N540 or N550 in a 223 Rem case in a 20 inch tube will net anywhere from 2700-2850 fps over an Oehler at 15 feet. Needless to say that anything much over 2750 is way on the warm end. All in a 6.5 twist 3 groove pac nor
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Old 03-11-2005, 01:05 PM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Brian

I didn't catch the part about using a 257 jacket. FWIW the 90 JLK(I'm sure you probably know this) uses a 6mm J4 jacket.

I have no experience in shooting it in anything other than a 223 service riflel AR15 20 inch tube. But in that application its pretty tough.

Jeff
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  #11  
Old 03-11-2005, 07:24 PM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Jeff (Rost 495), Thank you for posting the data on the 223 with the 90 grain bullets and the 6.5 twist. Also, I didn't know that the 90 Jlk uses a 6mm J4 jacket, but it doesn't surprise me.

I made mention in my post on the 257 jacket as part of my attempt to answer the issue, of whether the bullet construction of the various 90 grain bullets, was adequate to hold together at the high rpm's generated by the 6.5 or 7 twist barrels.

About 6 months ago, I emailed Corbins bullets, when investigating the possibility of making my own 80 - 90 grain bullets. I have cut and pasted my question and his answer: (Q) "Would the J-22 Jackets which are .705 inches in length, be long enough to make bullets up to 90 grains in weight or would I have to use jacket reducing dies to draw larger caliber jackets down to .224." (A) " Oh, heavens no! They make up to maybe 65 grains with lead tip. You would need to draw down a .257 jacket to .224 for a 90 grain weight. It works rather well. We have made many sets of these recently, as the current trend leans toward exactly what you ask about."

I was interested to hear that you have used 3 Pac Nor 6.5 twist barrels in your .223, and obviously had great success with them. I am about to order a barrel for the .224 Clark and received an email reply from Pac Nor, who were cooperative, and willing to send to me direct any barrels ordered by me, as unlike Krieger and Lilja, they didn't have an Australian importer. I will certainly contact them again to tie up the loose ends and place an order.

Your information confirms that the 90 grain bullets of JLK work well with a 6.5 twist in a 223 at about 2700 - 2800 fps. I have also noted that the 22 BR shooters are also using the 6.5 twist with the 90 grain JLK at velocities of 3000 - 3100 fps, and that the 22/243 Middlestead, 22/6mm AI,etc shooters are successfully using a 7.0 twist barrel at velocities of 3,400 - 3500. My guess is that around 3,200 fps (329,142 rpm) the ability to switch to a 7 twist barrel occurs.

I agree with you that the introduction of the 90 grain Sierra MK with a .504 BC is not likely to make those currently shooting the JLK 90 VLD with .570 BC switch across, unless there is a significant gain in accuracy. Out of curiousity what is the length of the JLK 90 grain VLD?

Hopefully Richard Graves 80 & 85 grain Wildcat ULD bullets which are currently in transit will soon arrive. I will also see if I can somehow source some JlK 90 grain bullets, OK Weber (JLK agent) told me that they are no longer exporting. Regards, Brian.
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2005, 04:58 PM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Brian

FWIW info. Cannot get the same speed out of a 4 groove Krieger 6.5 twist safely as I can get out of 3 groove Pac Nor 6.5 twist.

Also-- extensively shot 90s in a 7 twist Krieger. (in 223) Had some luck at stabilizing but it was really on the ragged edge. Lots of bullets that were tipping at 300 yards. Not exactly keyholes sideways but oblong bullet holes. Knowing I was shooting a 20 inch tube and that I could probably kick the speed up to max and things would be ok was not good. Especially if I got to Perry and it was 50 degrees etc..... So off to the next thing. There was a 6 twist tube already. Folks had used and were not happy. My gunsmith talked to Chris at PN and they committed to do a 6.5 twist if we chipped in for tooling. Unknown to us we gave the AMU at Ft. Benning a free ride this way as they were playing too.....

1.227 to 1.325 is short to long on a box I just dug up. I bought more than a few as they shot so well. This is still a 2002 lot date.

Hope some of this is of help!

BTW the bc of the JLK is 560-565 after doing a bunch of shooting, chronographing, and then comparing comeups from the ballistic programs and is backed by AMUs actual doppler at 1000 yards. FWIW.

Since I'm out of shooting for sometime now, its exciting to at least talk competitive shooting. I'm kinda proud of getting the 90 JLK to run and actually winning with it after getting the kinks worked out.

Jeff
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Old 03-13-2005, 05:09 AM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Jeff, Many thanks for a very informative post, and it certainly appears that you trail blazed on the JLK 90 in the AR 15.

Regarding the length of the JLK 90. Am I correct in that the 1.227 - 1.325 is a "typo", and should probably read 1.227 - 1.235? This prompts my next question. How did you and most other shooters seat these bullets for best accuracy. Out, touching, or at least .005 or more into the lands?

You mentioned that the 4 groove Krieger 6.5 twist gave less velocity than the Pac-Nor 3 groove with the same twist. Was the accuracy similar with both barrel configurations? Also, did anyone notice that barrel life was better or worse with the 4 groove than the 3 groove. Regards, Brian.
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  #14  
Old 03-13-2005, 12:05 PM
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Re: New .22 Cal Matchking

Brian--

Yes that was a typo.... Had to run out to the loading room, measure a handful and come back to the computer.....

I know a few that let them jump some. About 20thou or so. I usually just set them so they were 50thou in, but thats probably not so accurate as I'm pretty sure they were basically soft seating at that rate. I always had better luck going at least 35thou in minimum.

The chamber had a long throat but was very accurate. Allowing seating the 90 so as to not pass the neck juncture in the case.

Barrel life is another thing. I just never got the life from a buttoned tube that I did from a cut tube. Lets say 3500 was probably max for a Pac Nor. While I could run any Krieger to 5000 or more pretty easy. So I don't think you can compare much there in reality. UNLESS you got both done the same way. At that point I still don't think there is going to be that much difference but I could be mistaken. I do like the odd number of grooves lately and will strive to stay with a 5 or 3 from now on. Seems to be easier on everything. I should note that both even and odd grooves shoot fine, for some reason I just have been happier with odd grooves. Of course loading for each is a different beast. Almost like 2 different rifles-- IE could be the same, may not be.

Thats my take on it anyway.

Jeff

Edited to add that I fail to see on seating depth, why folks would seat just to touch. There are very few bullets that are good enough to give the exact same ogive on each bullet(that I"ve shot anyway). That being said its like a roll of the dice. This one touches and pressures are just that. But what about the ones that are actually 5thou engaged, those pressures will be up, and then the other end where you get 5 thou jump or freebore. Those pressures will be down. All that is not good in my books. I know the variation is still there if started off or in more, but seems like all jumping or all not is a more uniform thing than some jumping, some not.

Which may somewhat answer why I"m at 50 thou engaged and probably soft seating. I suspect it self governs itself for the most part.

BTW this is all funny to me with the BC of the 90. Being able to drive an 80 JLK faster than a sierra 80 due to bearing surfaces(I suspect) and the 80 having a proven bc of 510 give or take, the 90 makes no sense to me anyway... But thats my opinion only.

Jeff
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