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Reloading Berger Bullets


Need some advice

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Unread 03-23-2009, 11:22 PM
Silver Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bryan, Tx
Posts: 284
Re: Need some advice

" Neck turning is to center the round in the neck" from bounty hunter

Neck turning does not center the bullet in the neck, In fact it's still just as off center as before it was neck turned. The only way to truly center the bullet in the cartridge is to sort cases by zero neck variance... and then neck turn!Each bullet set in a case with increased neck variance will actually have the bullet offset with regards to the rifling and the cartridge by the same amount. Neck turning just uniforms neck tension circumferentially around the bullet for uniform release

1) Compare the following: a custom barrel (lilja, hart brux etc) chambered with a factory neck

2) A factory barrel chambered with a tight neck.

Which would shoot better under range conditions?
Probably the custom barrel due to the expert lapping etc IMO

People that take the time to turn necks probably just build better ammunition.
If you are anal enough to turn necks on a factory barrel, then you are just trying to avoid "stacking tolerances" meaning that by allowing small errors as you build your base snowballs exponentially into an inaccurate trainwreck!

Handloading feeds the OCD monster in us all, just dont forget to you will NEVER control all the variables even with a perfect load.
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Unread 03-24-2009, 12:32 AM
Bronze Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 98
Re: Need some advice

Man I cannot believe all of the guys that are so worked up over this neck turning thing. It is really simple. If you have a standard SAMI spec chambered barrel, regardless of if it came on a factory gun or was a gun re-barreled by a gunsmith, to do anything other than cut off the high spots to help uniform neck tension is like trying to make a silk purse from a sows ear. Why the hell would anyone want to increase the distance from the chamber wall in the neck area and invite more room for error? For testing purposes we have culled brass by neck thickness in groups of 10 cases and shot 4 different cull goups the same day. The target group size was not impacted one bit so long as the neck tension and run out was closely controlled. It would be a much better use of time to do two other things, 1- determine the length from the bolt face to the start of the lands and then work with varied seating depths to obtain maximum accuracy and 2- use a concentricity gague to check bullet run out and make the necessary corrections. All this crap about "turning necks does this and that" is an excercise in frutility unless you are doing it for a tight neck chamber. If the variance in the case neck wall is so bad that you can't cull enough pieces for uniformity within a grand or so - throw the brass in the garbage can and buy some new Norma, Nosler or other low tolerance brass. I've only run into one batch of Winchester or Remington brass with really big variances in neck wall thickness in 30 years. Finally, any one who would pay to have a non match grade barrel tight necked chambered is a knucklehead. Anyone who would buy such a gun is a bigger knucklehead and any gunsmith that would recommend it should have his head examined.
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Unread 03-24-2009, 07:13 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 166
Re: Need some advice

I bougfht the Hornady LNL Overall length guage and the 2506 modified case to go with it.
I had only left a slight coating of kroil, then dry patched it and oiled it after about a week. I didnt see any additional fouling come out, and agree that it should not be kept in there. I had read that one guy was using a light coating before storage, but I think it is not worth the risk of tching now that I know more.

What a great hobby we have. I am always learning more about different aspects of this hobby and enjoy it very much.
Thanks for the help guys.

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Unread 03-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,013
Re: Need some advice

One thing I learned shooting BR was you can have the perfect chamber tight neck rifle in 6ppc that will shoot in the 0's and the only things that will effect groups is seating depth, neck tension amount of powder. I'm leaving out the shooter and with a tight neck rifle we also know what the neck dia is.

This thing about SAAMI spec when you buy a factory rifle till it's shot no one knows what that neck dia is so to me pretty hard to say this will work or it won't.

With the shortage of brass/bullets trying to buy enough to sort would be hard to do if your looking at hunting type bullets. My hunting rifles are just that and most who will build a rifle will give 1/2" groups accuracy and I'm not going to try and turn that rifle into a LR match rifle.

I'll make the best hunting ammo for the rifle I can but I'm not sorting brass/bullets doing bullet run out. If I think I need to do those things then maybe I'm having the wrong type rifle build and I'd sure be talking to who every build my rifle and see what he thinks.
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Unread 03-24-2009, 09:48 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,232
Re: Need some advice

First of all,

Ackley Man, you nearly made me spew coffee when I read your post (which I agree with for the most part).

As far as the original poster, buy the following book, read it 3 times and then ask your question again

Zediker Publishing

I own some very very very accurate rifles (more accurate than I can shoot them on most days). I haven't been able to quantify many of the 'specialty' processes that are discussed on here. The one process that appears to make a small difference to me on my 7mmRM is sorting brass by weight/volume. Here is what I did and how I verified that it made a small difference to my rifle.

1) shoot all the brass in a lot one time.
2) prep the brass in the entire lot (100 brass). Primer pockets in and out, trim to a common length (all square), in/out chamfer.
3) Sort the prepped brass by weight. I then verified that the volume WAS related to weight in my batch of Norma brass. I verified by weighing the amount of water that the heaviest 10 brass and the lightest 10 brass would hold.

I then worked up a very accurate load using RL 22, 162gr Amax. with the heaviest (least volume) 20 brass. The same load in the lighter (larger volume) brass shot a little less velocity and correspondingly to a slightly (1/2 moa or so) different POI.

Before everyone starts screaming that it doesn't matter. It may not matter with any other rifle / load / shooter combo in the world; but it DID make a small difference in my test.

What did I do about it? I keep the brass sorted by weight and simply verify my POI with the ammo I'm using before I go hunting. I shot this rifle 6 times this year, 3 times over a chrono to verify velocity and 3 times at 200yds to verify POI. The group at 200yds measured .362" (I don't think I had coffee that morning).

If some is good and more is better, then too much is just right.

My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives
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Unread 03-24-2009, 10:03 AM
Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,013
Re: Need some advice

The orginal post was about a 300 Dakota and the brass runs around $40 for 20 cases and it has a match chamber?

Dakota Arms Cartridges Product Page

Last edited by TOM H; 03-24-2009 at 10:07 AM.
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Unread 03-24-2009, 10:44 AM
Silver Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bryan, Tx
Posts: 284
Re: Need some advice

I agree that neck turning may have minimal impact, but allowing a thousandth here and a thousandth there may leave you with a less than desirable product, especially when you have the ability (and hopefully the desire) to make a better product. This website is about "long range hunting" and at longer distances (600-100 yards+) small stacked tolerances do make a difference. Sure there is a heirarchy of what makes the most difference. This is not When I pull the trigger I just like to know I have done everything in my power to control the variables that I can so the animal doesn't suffer.

Tight necks may shoot better, but a grain of dirt in a tight neck could make the difference in making that 800 yard elk shot or screw up a follow up! Too tight is also bad, but great on the bench.

There is such a diversity on this site, the debates are great! There are people that hunt and shoot competitively all the way to the "once a year three holes in the paper plate" and go types.
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