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Need .223 reloading advice ?

 
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:57 PM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

I agree with the small base dies. I load for my AR a LOT.... Never had a problem with a slam fire on federal primers. All I use are Federal Match. But then again I am not shooting full auto. For that I personally would buy Federal or some other manufactured ammo that has the crimped primers! You WILL loose primers if they are not crimped.

I may have miss read your post and assumed that you ment full auto shooting. I just got back from a shoot where it was windy and way dusty. I shot over 600 of my reloads with out one malfunction using the small base dies. For my AR they are the only way I will go.

Hope that helps
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2012, 01:04 PM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

I also ment to mention that if you are shooting once fired brass from the military or the police departments. I use the latter.... You will have to remove the crimp in the primer pocket. It takes quite a bit of time unless you get the right tools. I started out by just using the chamfer tool. THAT SUCKED! Then I got a cutting tool for my RCBS case prep station. It worked but you had to be really careful not to remove too much or you get gas leakage from the primer and you will burn your bolt face. I learned this the hard way and had to replace my bolt. Now I use the RCBS Swager tool. It works great. Some time added to the case prep but way easier and it sizes the whole primer pocket. Not one in over 3000 loads has had any leakage. Also when you are priming your cases if the primer doesnt fit smoothly.... dont force it. resize the primer pocket. Federal cases seem to be hard and it takes a bit more to get that pocket resized.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Ryan
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  #10  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:22 PM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanG View Post
I also ment to mention that if you are shooting once fired brass from the military or the police departments. I use the latter.... You will have to remove the crimp in the primer pocket. It takes quite a bit of time unless you get the right tools. I started out by just using the chamfer tool. THAT SUCKED! Then I got a cutting tool for my RCBS case prep station. It worked but you had to be really careful not to remove too much or you get gas leakage from the primer and you will burn your bolt face. I learned this the hard way and had to replace my bolt. Now I use the RCBS Swager tool. It works great. Some time added to the case prep but way easier and it sizes the whole primer pocket. Not one in over 3000 loads has had any leakage. Also when you are priming your cases if the primer doesnt fit smoothly.... dont force it. resize the primer pocket. Federal cases seem to be hard and it takes a bit more to get that pocket resized.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Ryan

The redding part number was RB80111.
It said that they where the Redding -A die set for bottle neck .223 cases .
Is this set that you all are talking about ?

I have 500 pcs of winchester brass on order if it ever gets here .
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:17 PM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

No sir they are not the same as small base dies.... the Redding dies are actually more precision that the RCBS. I wouldnt order new dies unless you start having feeding problems. You wont when you keep the chamber area clean and under slow firer. Its when the chamber gets hot that the small base dies feed a bit better. The brass you ordered wont have to have the primer pocket resized either.

Does that answer your question?
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  #12  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:44 AM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanG View Post
I also ment to mention that if you are shooting once fired brass from the military or the police departments. I use the latter.... You will have to remove the crimp in the primer pocket. It takes quite a bit of time unless you get the right tools. I started out by just using the chamfer tool. THAT SUCKED! Then I got a cutting tool for my RCBS case prep station. It worked but you had to be really careful not to remove too much or you get gas leakage from the primer and you will burn your bolt face. I learned this the hard way and had to replace my bolt. Now I use the RCBS Swager tool. It works great. Some time added to the case prep but way easier and it sizes the whole primer pocket. Not one in over 3000 loads has had any leakage. Also when you are priming your cases if the primer doesnt fit smoothly.... dont force it. resize the primer pocket. Federal cases seem to be hard and it takes a bit more to get that pocket resized.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

Ryan
I use the K&M primer pocket tool in a Black & Decker electric screw driver. Primer pockets have always been consider a pain in the butt at my house as well. Primers slipping back out of the pocket have always been a problem for me in just about everything thing I load up if they sit for a year or so. I, have not done in serious investigation over this issue, but kinda think the tool needs to be about five tenths smaller, and maybe two thousandths shallower in depth. But maybe dead wrong on the depth. Never seen a slam fire issue in the AR platform, but also seat the primers .005" under the face.
gary
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  #13  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanG View Post
No sir they are not the same as small base dies.... the Redding dies are actually more precision that the RCBS. I wouldnt order new dies unless you start having feeding problems. You wont when you keep the chamber area clean and under slow firer. Its when the chamber gets hot that the small base dies feed a bit better. The brass you ordered wont have to have the primer pocket resized either.

Does that answer your question?
actually Redding as well as RCBS make small base dies. I've seen two sets of Redding small base dies, and they still are a tiny bit bigger than the RCBS dies. Otherwise I see little difference between the two brands. Forster does not make a set as far as I know, and not sure about Hornaday and Lee. AR's seem to be a little more critical of seating depths, plus your limited by the magazine. For that issue the Forster seater would be a must have.
gary
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  #14  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:15 PM
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Re: Need .223 reloading advice ?

Bigbuck,

Couple of things here. One, you're getting into what is undeniably a form of advanced handloding. That's true anytime you load for an automatic of any kind. Service Rifles (like the AR) have a number of things you need to be aware of in order to create proper ammo. The floating firing pin has already been mentioned, and it's a valid point. Use a primer that has a relatively hard cup, in order to reduce the chances of a slam fire. CCI makes a #41 primer that's a duplicate of the primer that Lake City uses in all military 5.56mm production. The primer (whichever type you choose) must be seated properly. That it, below the case head and bottomed out firmly within the primer pocket.

Sizing. Small Base sizing has already been mentioned, and it's usually the best way to go. Most ARs have fairly generous chambers, and conventional Full Length sizing die will almost always give reliable function. However, the extra reduction provided by the S/B dies also assist in giving easier extraction upon firing, something most folks are unaware of due to the nature of the rifles. But it does ease the stress on extractors and can increase longevity of some parts. The real issue here, is headspace. With a bolt gun, clearance of .001" or so is perfectly adequate, and will allow the rifle to fucntion reliably. This is not the case with autoloaders. Here, you want a minimum of .003" of shoulder setback, and .004"-.005" is even better. The best way to check this, adjust your dies, and verify that the cases are being sized properly, is with a case gage. The simple chamber type gages like those from L.E. Wilson or Dillon, or the more complex RCBS Precision Mic, either will work. Bottom line is, you need to know that the dies are setting the shoulders back sufficiently, without going too far. Yes, you need a gage, and you need to use them, frequently. Doing so will eliminate many of the potential problems, that you'd really rather not run into to begin with.

Crimping. There's absolutely no need to crimp in an AR, provided you have sufficient neck tension to keep the bullets from moving during feeding. Rarely seen this happen after loading and firing tens of thousands of match rounds for ARs over the years. Crimping generally degrades accuracy, and the more you crimp, the more that degradation can be expected. This is why the 77SMKs have such a shallow cannelure on them; to meet the military requirement that they be cannelured and crimped, without really doing much of either. In otherwords, the absolute minimum they can get away with, and still be within "specifications." They have to do so to meet a government spec. You don't. Don't do it if you don't have to and your accuracy will thank you. If you decide you must, just think, "less is better."

Autoloaders aren't bolt guns, and several of the techniques needed to load them are quite different than what you may already be familiar with. Take the time to learn about these differences, and you can avoid some potentially serious pitfalls. The Sierra manual has a section devoted to loading for gas guns, but probably the best single source is Glen Zediker's book on, "Loading for Competition; Making the Target Bigger." In it, Glen describes many of these areas and does a superb job of explaining exactly the ins and outs, and most importantly, the "whys" of many of these operations. Good book, and one that needs to be read by someone just getting into loading for gas guns.
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