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Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

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  #15  
Unread 01-12-2006, 09:45 AM
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Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

I understand what you're saying... but to clarify, that's more than one good group. It's the light gun six target aggregate. So the rifle is obviously consistent.

I think it's important to learn from guys who "go against the grain" so to speak. There are countless examples of guys who sort of march to a different drum, who then, by their success, lead everyone else to knowledge.

I'm not saying that neck turning isn't ever necessary. I'm just saying that Schatz is a good example of a guy to does things differently, and wins.

There was a road race car in the late 50's, early 60's which was known as "Old Yeller II". It was basically a collection of parts from other cars, and the designer had about 1/10th the money invested in it than the British sports car afficianados had in their Jags, MG's, etc. Old Yeller II beat every car on the track, and he did so very consistently. He broke all the conventional rules of what you "had to do to win," and the British and European designers had to take note and respond to the success of "The Junkyard Dog" as Old Yeller II was affectionately known. They learned a few things from one old guy in a tiny garage out in California.

None of this is to say that neck turning will go out of fashion in BR circles. But then again, if guys like Schatz continue to win, it just may. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Dan
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  •   #16  
    Unread 01-12-2006, 10:01 AM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    [ QUOTE ]
    I think it's important to learn from guys who "go against the grain" so to speak. There are countless examples of guys who sort of march to a different drum, who then, by their success, lead everyone else to knowledge.



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I couldn't agree more. That is one of the reasons I got into long range shooting and hunting in the first place. Doing something different than most has always attracted me. One example is case head squaring. Faithful follower of the idea, I stand charged and guilty.


    [ QUOTE ]
    that's more than one good group. It's the light gun six target aggregate. So the rifle is obviously consistent.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agreed. I should have used the term, "one good session". Either way you look at it though, there still tends to be more consistency in the game from the neck turners as a whole because those that turn necks far outnumber the ones who don't and therefore, also bring home more plaques. I don't mean to say that Richard isn't deserving of the record. He won it plain and simple, but I would be willing to bet the next guy who beats his record down the road will be a neck turner. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

    Anyways, good points here in this thread made by all. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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      #17  
    Unread 01-12-2006, 10:11 AM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    sent you a email GG

    thanks
    steve
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      #18  
    Unread 01-12-2006, 10:15 AM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    Schatz does though sort his cases to 0.0005 thickness variation for his match stuff, so that is almost as close as you can neck turn (my NT process gives no more than -+0.0001" on my 50millionths mic)

    My 6br lots seems pretty consistant too, but i was surprised one lot is consistantly THICKER in the neck area by over half a thou.

    With over 4-5thou total clearance on a loaded round, i wouldnt turn either.

    YMMV,
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      #19  
    Unread 01-12-2006, 08:34 PM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    [ QUOTE ]
    In the spirit of good conversation, however, we still must explain the success of Richard Schatz, whose story is linked in my first post in this thread. He's a world record holder who does not neck turn.

    Just keepin' the fire poked. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Dan

    [/ QUOTE ] There is alot to not turning neck, you can just clean up the necks and order a reamer anyone can do that and not claim turning necks. You could buy 500rds of brass and sort them and order a reamer, all kinds of ways to get around not turning necks. I don't put much into Schatz not turning neck since it can be misleading, it just makes for good copy. He deserved what he won.
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      #20  
    Unread 01-12-2006, 11:08 PM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    I'm by no means an expert but do a LOT of reloading for many different rifles and specialty handguns. My suggestion would be to have a chamber cast done to see what the actual chamber neck diameter is...then neck down 30-06 brass to 25-06, load a bullet and measure. If you are greater or equal to the chamber neck diameter then you can safely turn the necks until they are at least .001" under the chamber neck measurement. If you are under by more than that amount before you turn them then just do enough to "buzz" the necks like has been mentioned. You'll still have a thicker case neck (and less excessive expansion) in the neck area...meaning better bullet concentricity to the bore and better case life.

    I do the same thing for my .243's and 7mm-08...use .308 Winchester brass and neck it down.
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      #21  
    Unread 01-13-2006, 07:16 AM
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    Re: Neck Turning/ should I /shouldnt I ?????????

    DWM, your comment about not neck turning the last fourth of a case neck so it will center in the chamber, to me, doesn't make sense. Here's why.

    There's always clearance between the case neck and chamber neck both before and after it's fired. There's more before it's fired. So, unless the unturned case neck part is exactly the same diameter of the chamber neck, there's no way it will be centered. Plus, the unturned part of the case neck will no doubt be of uneven thickness which means the turned section will not be concentric with the unturned section; this puts the turned section axis off center from the unturned section.

    Besides, when the firing pin drives a rimless bottleneck case forward against the chamber shoulder, the case shoulder centers in the chamber shoulder before the primer ignites the powder. Unless the case neck is in perfect alignment with the case shoulder, the case neck will be off center in the chamber neck area.
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