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Neck sizing

 
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:37 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

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Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post
Sidecarflip,

I'm pretty sure Murphy includes them in die sets, specifically to catch the unwary, and create alibi relays on those same Lake Erie shores of which you speak!
Kevin...

I don't go to shoot because I lack the expertise but I love to watch and of course peruse the exhibits and search for bargains. The National Matches are actually a spectacle for me and it's close by too.

No point in me going to the Shot Show in Vegas or to Harrisburg, PA for that show when just 60 miles away from me everything I'm interested in is there plus all the top shooting talent in the country and abroad actually competing.

I take it you attend as well? I know some great eateries in the Port Clinton, Marblehead area. It's a day trip for me. I go every year.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:45 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Oh yeah, this year was my 20th. In that time, I've only missed one, and they had to stick me in ICU to keep me from going. Even then, I was entered, packed and on the way before I got stuck in the hospital.

Should'a gone anyway. The hospital stay sucked!
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  #17  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:51 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Dammit. Guess I'll keep FL resizing.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:55 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

I might have the dies mixed up but I thought it said it fully sized the neck and and a set up for a adjustable shoulder bump.

On the expander ball I just use the optional non-expand shank and run the decap process at the same time I size. RCBS includes it with the die or you can buy they separately.

Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
If all your case necks have the same wall thickness within .001", I'd have your full length sizing die's neck honed out to .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. Some die company charges for doing this are way less than 20 bucks.

I don't like the bushing full length sizing dies as they don't size the case neck all the way back to the shoulder but instead stop short 1/16 to 1/32 inch. Their makers claim that's done so the unsized portion of the case neck helps align it in the chamber neck. That's not reality in my opinion; that part of the case is smaller in diameter than the chamber neck therefore no way does it help center the case neck; it's the case shoulder in the chamber shoulder that does that. And their bushings are a bit loose in the die so they can get off center from the case body axis when the neck's sized. However, bushing dies from RCBS and Redding are probably the best ones out there commercially; Sierra uses Redding ones on their cases they'er made for and get great results.

Then decap fired cases separately in another die and toss that die's expander ball someplace.
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  #19  
Old 10-17-2013, 05:19 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Well regardless of what the herd does, the fact remains that FL sizing is not always required or employed. I've never seen anyone prove that partial neck sizing, with a shoulder bump, is any less accurate than that of FL sized cases. I highly doubt this will ever be demonstrated.
And there are advantages to a well worked out plan in neck sizing. For one, FL sized cases hold way more runout than neck sized only. Neck sized grow less, and require less trimming, so capacity holds longer. Bushing dies partial neck size so they don't bring donuts into play so much, and they're not introducing tension variance with all the overworking of neck area below bullet bearing.
And best of all, with NS/bump I can make 100pcs of Lapua brass last 6 lifetimes, so I don't care what they charge for it!

A grand work-around for the details in reloading -is pressure. Given enough of it, cases can be crooked as hell and vary badly in capacity & neck tension, and still shoot tight groups. It's a popular function of competitive cartridges to reach enough pressure to shoot competitively.
Drop the pressure on a 6PPC for example, and it shows a less than super cartridge character.
Crank the pressure up to a higher/wider tune, and now it shoots again, but:
-The cases won't last long
-You have no choice but to FL size them back into machine gun loading speeds(between conditions)
This both directly and indirectly leads to the vast majority of competitors FL sizing, and continually replacing brass(whether they realize it or not). It works well for them.

Where competition produces 1/2moa only with anomolies, competitors could back off on pressure a bit & use better capacities for bullets instead of under capacities. This is where they could maintain stable brass for many reloads, with partial NS/bump. And it could give them an edge over those constantly munging up their brass.
Where they're shooting larger over capacity cartridges, well they can't take advantage of extreme pressures anyway, so there is no gain in trashing their brass otherwise(through excess sizing).
The exception here, is chosen cartridges that are poor in design. They will have to be FL sized no matter what, and they rarely represent competition to a better field. This is the guy showing up with a 270..

As far as competition, and what competitors do, as a basis, this has a lot more to do with format, conditions, and shooter skills -than case sizing. Competitive trends are a continually moving target.
This is a long range HUNTING site. It's not about format, sighters, rests, grouping and competition. It's about single shot accuracy.
Getting a good case life plus very consistent capacities and low runout, can't hurt a thing for hunters. And IMO, with a good cartridge design, hunters would be better served to run rational loads, and pick up a bushing die for necks, a Redding body die for bumping, and a Sinclair mandrel die for neck expansion. Precision bullet seating with a Wilson & arbor press.
You won't be replacing anymore brass, and you'll shoot just as good as load development leads for your system.
But it's my opinion, and I think there are many qualifiers to consider before choosing the best sizing path.
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  #20  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:00 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post
Oh yeah, this year was my 20th. In that time, I've only missed one, and they had to stick me in ICU to keep me from going. Even then, I was entered, packed and on the way before I got stuck in the hospital.

Should'a gone anyway. The hospital stay sucked!
I'll make a note of that and prior to, I'll shoot you a PM and we can meet in person. I usually go with some of the group I shoot with and I have a very good friend who lives just south of there (out in the swampland) who usually shows up too. Real good waterfowl hunting in the grassy marshlands to the south of Route 2. Ohio bangs me pretty hard on the non resident permit but it's cheaper than going out west and my Federal stamp is good anywhere.
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  #21  
Old 10-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

[QUOTE=Bart B;865786]If all your case necks have the same wall thickness within .001", I'd have your full length sizing die's neck honed out to .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. Some die company charges for doing this are way less than 20 bucks.

I don't like the bushing full length sizing dies as they don't size the case neck all the way back to the shoulder but instead stop short 1/16 to 1/32 inch. Their makers claim that's done so the unsized portion of the case neck helps align it in the chamber neck. That's not reality in my opinion; that part of the case is smaller in diameter than the chamber neck therefore no way does it help center the case neck; it's the case shoulder in the chamber shoulder that does that. And their bushings are a bit loose in the die so they can get off center from the case body axis when the neck's sized. However, bushing dies from RCBS and Redding are probably the best ones out there commercially; Sierra uses Redding ones on their cases they'er made for and get great results.

Then decap fired cases separately in another die and toss that die's expander ball someplace.[/QUOTE]

Better yet, forego the die completely and get a single purpose decapper die. RCBS as well as Lyman have one and they aren't much cost wise plus, because they are dedicated decappers, the decap pin/shaft is larger in diameter and stronger-less probe to breakage, I've never broke either the Lyman or the RCBS. The Lyman has a bit bigger bore diameter. The RCBS will drag a tiny bit on a 338-416 case. The Lyman clears the case entirely. The RCBS uses a ballless (that sounds terrible ) shaft of larger than normal diameter affixed in the normal RCBS (threaded with stop nuts and headed decapping pin) way and the Lyman uses a brazed in cap, shaft with decapping pin.

I like them because I want to decap, then clean then size in that order.

As long as we are discussing dies, I want to bring up a hint of sorts...

On RCBS dies, the expander ball decapping pin collet sometimes appears to be off center when you rotate the die body and observe the end of the expander ball rod. Whats occuring is the the slop in the threaded rod allows the jam nut to lock the shaft slightly offcenter. Thats easily fixed by adding a ground and case hardened flat washer between the jam nut and the top knurled knob before tightening the jam nut. The washer spreads out the locking force and allows the expander ball/shaft to center in the bore....

See, that N/S die has no tangible use anymore....lol
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