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Neck sizing

 
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2013, 01:00 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

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Originally Posted by BrentM View Post
I guess it depends on whether you agree with the experts who write the books or the experts who write on forums. The books all indicate that neck sizing is a proven method to increase accuracy and case life.
Depends on which books you've been reading. Frankly, I don't know any successful competitive shooters who neck size, including (literally) the best in the world. Most of the writers who put such stuff out wouldn't be caught dead at such shoots, and have no idea what they're talking about. When Ohio Ordnance came out with their M1918A3 semi-auto BAR, one of those same gun writers (very well known, and from one of the more prominent gun magazines) promptly declared that it'd be, "the perfect rifle to use in Service Rifle competition at Camp Perry." The guy clearly had no idea what constitutes a Service Rifle, has never attended a high power match of any type, and probably couldn't even find Camp Perry on a map.

Sticking to those who both write, and actually compete (a very small club, I assure you), you'll never hear any of them recommend Neck Sizing.
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Old 10-17-2013, 02:10 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Kevin...

Camp Perry is where the wind always blows the wrong way, it's cool in the summer and the shadow of the N-Plant is on the close horizon. (I go by there regularly on my trips from Cleveland to Toldeo...)

I think sometimes neck sizing dies are just put in reloading sets to take up room in the box...........
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2013, 02:56 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

I neck-size for all my bolt-action rifle calibers. My only single-shot is a .45-70 1874 Sharps, and the others are lever-actions, and those get FL sized.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2013, 03:42 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Sidecarflip,

I'm pretty sure Murphy includes them in die sets, specifically to catch the unwary, and create alibi relays on those same Lake Erie shores of which you speak!
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2013, 03:56 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

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Originally Posted by BrentM View Post
To clarify, are you saying to size the neck significantly under diameter and run a ball back up the neck to expand it to proper tension is the best way?

I guess it depends on whether you agree with the experts who write the books or the experts who write on forums. The books all indicate that neck sizing is a proven method to increase accuracy and case life. Proper neck sizing involves bushings to resize the neck to .002 to .003 under the loaded case neck diameter.
I agree with the folks winning matches and setting records and getting best results testing bullets for accuracy

With bottleneck cases headspacing on their shoulder, the case neck and the bullet in it are centered in the chamber based on how well centered the case neck is on the case shoulder. With such ammo, the case shoulder's hard into and well centered in the chamber shoulder when the round fires. In line ejectors push it there before the firing pin drives it there when it fires. The case body doesn't touch the chamber at all except at its back end where it's pressed against the chamber wall opposite the extractor on the case head. The case neck floats in space in the chamber neck. How well the bullet aligns with the bore is decided by how perfectly centered the case neck is on the case shoulder.

Full length sizing dies with neck diameters a couple thousandths less than a loaded round's neck diameter best center sized case neck on shoulders. They hold the neck sizing part of the die well aligned with the body of case centered in the die body. Neck only sizing dies don't do that. Tension's determined by how much smaller the sized case mouth is than bullet diameter.

Few top ranked, match winning and record setting rifle shooters write books. Nancy Tompkin's one of them. She, her husband Middleton and daughters Michelle and Sherri have probably won more matches and set more records that any other group of four people on this planet. They've been doing it with full length sized bottleneck cases for decades.

Sierra Bullets' been full length sizing all their cases used to test their stuff for accuracy since the 1950's. I doubt anyone shoots their stuff more accurate than they do. Most benchresters switched over to full length sizing their cases a few years ago. While their smallest groups stayed the same size, their largest ones shrank quite a bit.

I've observed over the years that brand new cases, both rimless and belted ones unprepped in any way, typically shoot bullets more accurate than any neck only sizing ones do. But I judge accuracy by where all shots fall, not just a small cluster of a few of them dead center in a larger group of shot holes. Any fired case sizing process will sometimes put a few shots in the smallest group their maker has ever seen.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:24 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

Good info. I don't shoot bench, my sanity is already questionable, as that would end it for sure. And I don't write books, I can't read. I guess I am ok with .5 MOA or less and for some reason, probably luck, I get that. LOL

I am not set in my ways on this issue at all. Perhaps for the average joe you can go either way and be fine. I still don't like the amount of work my brass goes through with a RCBS gold FL die and ball. It hammers the neck one direction and then pulls it the other. So the middle option is something like a forester perhaps that FL sizes with bushings for the proper tension?
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2013, 04:35 PM
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Re: Neck sizing

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Originally Posted by BrentM View Post
So the middle option is something like a forester perhaps that FL sizes with bushings for the proper tension?
If all your case necks have the same wall thickness within .001", I'd have your full length sizing die's neck honed out to .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. Some die company charges for doing this are way less than 20 bucks.

I don't like the bushing full length sizing dies as they don't size the case neck all the way back to the shoulder but instead stop short 1/16 to 1/32 inch. Their makers claim that's done so the unsized portion of the case neck helps align it in the chamber neck. That's not reality in my opinion; that part of the case is smaller in diameter than the chamber neck therefore no way does it help center the case neck; it's the case shoulder in the chamber shoulder that does that. And their bushings are a bit loose in the die so they can get off center from the case body axis when the neck's sized. However, bushing dies from RCBS and Redding are probably the best ones out there commercially; Sierra uses Redding ones on their cases they'er made for and get great results.

Then decap fired cases separately in another die and toss that die's expander ball someplace.
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