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To neck size or full length size???

 
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  #22  
Old 02-14-2011, 12:53 PM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

Thanks sbruce,


That is helpfull, the only things I need at this point are chanced and deburr dies and priming tool. The problem was what dies. I'll also have to pic up a trimmer. Then all my components!!
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  #23  
Old 05-09-2014, 11:28 AM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

The best of both worlds is to NS and then use a body die every so often. Less stress on the brass and enhanced accuracy... FLS as a last resort.

Shaun
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  #24  
Old 05-09-2014, 06:28 PM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

I have been told that a FLS die can neck size too. My question is: Does anyone have recommendations on how to use a FLS die to neck size?
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2014, 08:28 AM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatyrem View Post
I have been told that a FLS die can neck size too. My question is: Does anyone have recommendations on how to use a FLS die to neck size?
FL dies can only partial neck size (size some of the neck and not size the case body or push the shoulder back)



you do this by backing the die up off the shell holder approx. 3/4 turn.

The amount you back the die up will depend upon the relationship between the interior dimensions of your die and the size of your chamber which determines the exterior dimensions of your cases.

A caveat is that you possibly could size all the neck with a FL die if you had a very tight chamber and the interior dimensions of the die were large enough so that the die does not size the case body of a fire formed case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdhpu View Post
The best of both worlds is to NS and then use a body die every so often. Less stress on the brass and enhanced accuracy... FLS as a last resort.

Shaun
+1 and the best neck sizer is the Lee Collet. A combination of the Lee Collet and Redding Body Die will do everything you need with the least effort and best results (normal reloading not super anal benchrest reloading)
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

I bushing neck size with Wilson dies, bump shoulders with Redding body dies, and expand necks with a Sinclair expander die.
My expander die is instrumented to give me relative expander force(pre-seating force), and I match this on all necks before charging any cases.

Unless you can partial NS with a collet die, I suggest it is not the best from a TENSION standpoint.
Tension-wise, there is nothing good in FL sizing of necks. Only bad.
Seating depth is another big factor that needs to be controlled. This is far easier when tension is controlled.
While it's a sign of good methods to produce low TIR, tension control is by far a bigger factor overall.
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  #27  
Old 05-10-2014, 01:25 PM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

I am with Boomtube. I have been watching with amusement at the same old BS.

Read the article posted in the second post by German Salazar on someone who empirically tests, measures with proper equipment and actually can quote real pressures as he uses an Oehler 43 with strain gauges in lieu of the magic calibrated pressure eyes of most here.

Think of the "drummer" in the white coat selling snake oil in the movie Josey Wales to put some of this in context.

IF you think that you have perfectly uniform brass by NS only and then FL/or use a body die to bump the shoulder every 4th to 5th round, then you are either "special" or explain where you get your "magic" brass that stays uniform in body dimension every shot and then suddenly jumps in size to have hard opening/closing etc. Total BS to even think you have uniformity like that, but somehow we have people here think that is reality.

We have heard repeatedly from MikeCR that he NS only, never FL sizes and ONLY bumps the shoulder. How does he do this magical process. Well if you sort thru the BS you find he actually uses a NS only die and then uses a Redding body die which sizes the body exactly like a Redding FL die to the same dimension. HINT: Buy a Redding Type S bushing die and exactly the same thing. However, as he does it in two steps in sizing the neck AND body, in his mind that is not FL sized as it is done in two steps. Go figure that logic. Plus he loads normally to about 10% below SAAMI (he has stated his absolute max is 53 or 55K PSI depending on which post and what his magical pressure eye says).

Want another bottle of snake oil said the drummer?

In his defense, once you drill thru the BS, he uses body dies that are honed by Jim Carstenson (JLC Precision) to fit a chamber perfectly. IF you want a perfectly fit FL neck bushing die Jim will take a Redding body die, $80, 10 pieces of your fired brass and make a perfect FL die that uses bushings so IF you just cannot sleep at night w/o that little ridge on the neck you can have it too.

This is a LR hunting forum. Safe to say, most here (95%+) are at SAAMI or just above here and large calibers, so not sure how relevant loading procedures for minimal loads are to LR reloading, particularily as Mike CR biggest caliber used to be his 6.5 WSSM when he started the NS only mantra. Not exactly the LR hunting round for elk I would say but then I forgot to account for the magic.

You can play around with NS only, delude your self it is the magical recipe UNTIL that round fails to chamber or bolt locks with the large 12 pt or 6x6 standing there and then reality grabs your dumbass as to how stupid it really is. If you talk to most LR and match shooters, you will find that we have all tried the NS only route at some point and IT WILL bite you at the worst time.

As for the magical case life, again total BS, Tom Sarver holds the world record at 1000 with 5 shots into 1.340 inches, perfect 50 score and 5x with brass that was reloaded 64 times. ALL FL sized every time! I just bet he wishes someone had told him about the magic of NS only for accuracy and long case life.

OK, yes you might have to trim cases every 5 reloadings. Heaven forbid the awful chore of that trimming a few cases especially compared to having a bolt stick at the wrong time.

Learn to set up a FL die, (better yet get a custom or JLC precision) with Redding competition shell holders and never look back. You will have perfectly uniform brass every time, minimal sizing which gives you long case life and most importantly it will be 100% reliable compared to NS only.

I will leave the neck tension discussion for another day except learn to properly anneal and you will not have an issue.

Ok, let's hear where the NS only disciples tell where they get there magic brass. Until they can explain that , BS is the word.
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  #28  
Old 05-10-2014, 01:54 PM
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Re: To neck size or full length size???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
IF you think that you have perfectly uniform brass by NS only and then FL/or use a body die to bump the shoulder every 4th to 5th round, then you are either "special" or explain where you get your "magic" brass that stays uniform in body dimension every shot and then suddenly jumps in size to have hard opening/closing etc. Total BS to even think you have uniformity like that, but somehow we have people here think that is reality.
Would I be "special" if I NS every time and size case body/bump shoulder every time to the same dimensions as the previous load?

After the brass reaches it's full expansion then IME it will need a shoulder bump EVERY time after that, not every 4th or 5th time.

YMMV
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