I have been reading all the debates about this one is better than the other and I decided that the ladder test was the best so I loaded the ladder test charges and waited for the perfect day with no wind and waited and waited well it got here and off to the range I went. Shot all the charges at 200 yards and when I was done I was in the same place I was in before I started, During the testing there must have been some wind between 100-200 and I got nothing that I could use to determine the best load. So I went home and loaded up the charges for the OCW test went back to the range and shoot them at 100 yards and by the end of that session I knew my load. Now, I didn't start this thread to start an argument and I think ladder test is a great tool for someone with a perfect no wind shooting day and a gun that lays perfect every shot but, for the average guy I think OCW testing is the way to go.
Do you have any way to post pictures of the targets so we can look at what you saw. I would like a swing at reading your ladder test and I would be curious to see if Green 788 and you agree on the right OCW load (so please keep it secret to give him a chance to respond for a while) and if not why. I know I was sort of befuddled by the ladder test I shot 2 weeks ago but after looking at it and graphing the shots it jumped out at me. I will also post results from my follow up shots to tell everyone how that works out.
I'm still not sold on OCW being able to generate anything better than average results for the average guy either. There are too many benchresters using the ladder to pass it off after a first try. Maybe you learned that the loads you are using will never be outstanding in your gun. Maybe average is all you will get with those components (just a thought). Just like anything else you have to do it a few times before you start to figure it out. And with many things the harder learned skills yeild the better results. Anyone can play the tambourine but can you play Mozart on a tambourine?
Post your pictures and velocities and all the other relevant data and lets see if we can help you make heads or tales of it.
GRAVITY. It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW!
Thats a good idea Forkie, Abink has to test in wind a lot of times ( he lives in OK. ) yet the tests are able to be interpreted even a fair amount of wind . I have found that 200 yds is a bit close to read results as well .
If the rifle will not shoot lights out, ladder tests at 2-300 yards are pointless. If the gun doesn't shoot that well to begin with, about 1 MOA, you can get away with ladder tests at 100 yards.
At the same time, a ladder test with my 300 RSAUM Sendero went into one hole at 100 yards, but strung out a 4" / at 235 yards. I only have three choices as far as known distance goes: 100 yards, 200m and 500m. The rest of the range is usually muddy and/or under water on the "LR" portion. I would bet money you can see a clear ladder at 100 yards if your 200 yard ladder looked like a shotgun pattern because of poor inherent accuracy. Just my guess!
I tend to agree with sewwhat. I tried a ladder test with a 7 STW that didn't shoot very good at 100 yards, yet I did the ladder test at 300 yards. I still didn't find any good loads. The gun just didn't shoot good. I also think there is to much either, human error, or wind variable to do ladder testing unless you havea gun that shoots .5moa or better. Because 1 bad shot due to human error, or wind can throw the whole process off. See what I'm saying?? I placed my 300 yard target on here to get some opinoins, I loaded up all the shot numbers that people said to try, all to no avail. I"ll just continue to use my method and thats loading up 3 shells each with 1g increments, then to fine tune it, go up or down .5g to see if that tightens it up. Seems to work for me, and I shoot no more then 20 shells altogether. Lot less confusing.
Hey rem. I'm going to respond to yet another thing you just posted and I want to let you know I'm not picking on you at all. I have responded to your posts quite a bit lately with a slightly different viewpoint but I'm not trying to nag at you. It just seems that you are posting things that are interesting to me as well. I don't mean to crowd you. We are just bumping elbows in Len's livingroom. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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I"ll just continue to use my method and thats loading up 3 shells each with 1g increments, then to fine tune it, go up or down .5g to see if that tightens it up.
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I just wanted to say that while this is a valid method of finding a good load (excelent load sometimes) using a 1 grain increment can be just as frustrating as doing a ladder test with an inaccurate gun. It is too easy to pass right over a great load with no signs that it is in the increment you end up rejecting.
My case in point is the load I currently use for my .308. I loaded backwards from the max load in .2 gr steps. This took me back 1.6 grains from max. The first group was so so. The next few loads were 2+inch groups. Then I fired a group that had 3 holes touching. Then the groups opened right up again.
I guess I'm not dissagreeing with you in total just that I would take much smaller preliminary steps. I don't think I will ever do a work up with more than .4 grain steps. It would take more powder and bullets but I think the "shooting groups" method is best used when you creep up on the load instead of going back and forth in powder and trips to the range.
And I will add that after my last few experiences at the range I am quickly becoming a HUGE fan of checking groups at 300 yards or more to see what really works. I'm learning to let the bullets settle into their path to find out what they want to do.
All this is just my humble opinion and worth only what it is worth to you if it helps. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
GRAVITY. It's not just a good idea. It's the LAW!
Hey guys I threw my ladder test away the day I shot it. The group that it shot for all shots was about 2 inches and I know that is not the most accurate rifle out there. I have already posted my target on practical rifle forums and did as Forked Horn recommened because I wanted to see for my self. He picked the same load I picked. Keep in mind this is a factory stocked,sporter barreled gun. After finding the load I changed the seating depth and shot some better groups and as soon as I can I will post those pics