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Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

 
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  #1  
Old 04-16-2007, 11:15 AM
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Location: Hermiston, Oregon
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Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

Alright guys, I'm about to give up on this damn ladder testing BS. ITs really irritating me. Heres the deal. Wanted to find a load with 100g NBT and IMR-4831 with a winchester primer. I worked up a ladder from 51.5-55.5g at 200 yards. I loaded them to 3.250" which is right at the lands or somewheres close. Well from the ladder testing results, I thought I had something to be proud of. 52.5-53.5g put 3 shots, with 3 different weights into a .3xx" group. I thought that was crazy since being there each .5g difference. Ala the ladder test. Heres the ladder test and the 3 shot spread that was very good.



Well I figured 53g was the middle or "magic" load. So I loaded 3 shells each at 52.8, 53, and 53.2g and kept everything the same. Win case, win primer, 3.250". It was a little bit windy when I shot these groups, bout 10mph, but I was hoping for something a lot freaking better then what I got. I dont get how 1 day you can get 3 shots with 3 different weights under .5", but yet I load up 3 loads each with the SAME amount of powder, and I"m back up to 2" groups. I'm not very happy, or lack there of words. Heres the results from the 3 laods tested a couple days ago.



Ok I thought maybe the wind and I had a bad day at the range, $hit happens. I laoded the same exact loads up again, 52.8, 53, 53.2, keeping everythign the same once again. Went and shot at 200 yards on a nice day, maybe 5mph winds. What did I end up with, 1.5-2.5" groups again. Not very fricking happy to say the least. Heres the target of those loads.



I dont get it one bit. How can one day, produce such a good group with 3 different weights, then I load up the 3 loads in that range with the same weight of powder, and my groups are 3-4 times larger [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Anybody got some insight on this?? I'm looking for consistent 1" groups and under at 200 yards. Shouldn't really be all that hard to do off a bench and a good load. I know the rifle is more then capable as can be seen.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:25 AM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

Your results are the reason that I have no use (at all) for the ladder test.

What seems good on the ladder, can be an awful load.

Then you have to do it all over again (with multi-shot groups).

When you shoot a ladder, you are taking a one shot "sample" of the 5 shot group - it can be any one of the five shoots - on your first test, if you did it over again on the same day, with the same loads, you would NOT have two ladders that showed the same thing.

Next time at the range... take three sets of the same loads

A - 51.5 through 55.5
B - same
C - same

Then shoot three separate ladders and look at the results.

If you think you are confused now, wait til you have three of these ladders, and each tells you a totally different thing.

To see which of these loads is the best, shoot 5 shot groups and be done with it.

.
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:44 AM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

So what your saying is do 5 shot groups with 52.8, 53, 53.2??? I could do that, probly wouldn't get very good results though...Or do 5 shot groups at 52.5, 53, and 53.5??

I dont know, I"m just gonna keep loading how I always did it and I never had a problem keeping MOA at the distances I wish to shoot at. I was just hoping I could get 1/2 MOA with the ladder testing. Most the time I load up 3 loads at 1g intervals. Whichever shoots best, go up or down .5g and be done with it. Works for me and really dont take to much bullet/powder. I dont have inconsistency problems like this either...
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Old 04-16-2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

With cases of ~50 grains, I use 1/2 grain steps. Start at 100yds and then shoot your best at 300.

I know it's basic and not trendy, but it works, without leaving you in total confusment. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

.
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:04 PM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

Thanks! Back to the bench...
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Old 04-16-2007, 12:20 PM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

Don't forget about seating depth adjustment too!! I start by finding what the max velocity I can get with a powder and keep acceptable pressures... then adjust the seating depth .003" -.005" and shoot 5 shot groups at 200yds untill the groups are acceptable.
I guess I'd load up 15 of the 53 grain load, then shoot 5 @ right off the lands, 5 @ .003" off the lands and 5 @ .005-.0075 off the lands. See if that makes a difference. I've always had better luck "tuning" loads by adjusting seating depth than by tailoring powder charges... maybe it's psycho-symatic... but it works for me. ~JT
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:27 PM
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Re: Load development from ladder test, uhhhhhhh help!!!!

[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget about seating depth adjustment too!! I start by finding what the max velocity I can get with a powder and keep acceptable pressures... then adjust the seating depth .003" -.005" and shoot 5 shot groups at 200yds untill the groups are acceptable.
I guess I'd load up 15 of the 53 grain load, then shoot 5 @ right off the lands, 5 @ .003" off the lands and 5 @ .005-.0075 off the lands. See if that makes a difference. I've always had better luck "tuning" loads by adjusting seating depth than by tailoring powder charges... maybe it's psycho-symatic... but it works for me. ~JT

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo! That is exactly how I do it as well. Works every time.

James
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