I am neither for or against the collet die. It has no fit into the reloading at the level I shoot for and techniques I use with neck tension adjustment.
It has its pluses and minus, that is all I was trying to point out. Some very good F class shooters are using them and body dies and doing very well. However, they state that they normally require tweaking to make work correctly. So it is not normally pull the die out of the box and go to work it seems!
Plus I never said anyone was wasting their time, but I do think open discussion of all the issues with it does advance the question don't you?
what I do not buy is the arguements that you should use them due to cost of bushings and time spent lubing brass. Those are so hokey!
We have gun/scope combos up to and over $5000 plus and $45 of neck bushings is the reason you should use a collet die? You should know your target diameter +- 1 bushing so you do not need over three and somehow we are to think that $45 is an unreasonable expense in the LR game. One box of bullets can cost well over that and less than 1% of many rifle/scope combos.
We routinely ream primer pockets, trim, maybe turn necks, maybe open firing pin holes and 2 shots of spray lube and wiping off is a "time consuming" hurdle to reloading?
Neither one of those arguements pass the common sense test.
Finally neck tension adjustment is a variable that will significantly shrink groups IF you are after extreme accuracy. Not everyone gets that advanced in their reloading but for the ones that do, pretty sure it is a hell of a lot easier and faster to do with bushings and cheaper than buying new mandrels, polishing and adjusting. However, if you are not into neck tension adjustments, then no big deal and do not worry about it.
If you understand those facts and are willing to work them or ignore them, OK go for the collet die.
"We have gun/scope combos up to and over $5000 plus....If you understand those facts and are willing to work them or ignore them, OK go for the collet die."
"We"don't have $5K rigs, you do. I was speaking to more common shooters. If you had tacked that tidbit into your earlier comments it would made your elitest position much more clear. So, if you think bushings give you better accuracy than the collet, great but I doubt it. And, since you have never used one the fact is you really don't know either but I don't much care. ??
I know this is a older thread and i am sorry if by bumping it up i have upset anyone..
I am only new the sport, but am a fast leaner and am looking at reloading and keen to start buying my equipment, i have read alot of reviews and opinions and everything seems to have its pros and cons, my question is with the Lee collet neck size die, instead of honing down the mandrel on a .223 die could i just buy and use a .222 die and set that up accordingly to get my desired neck size ???
like i said i am only new, and this might not be advised or a poor solution but i just had to ask..
I was so stupid.
For years I used Redding FL "S" dies.
I had many brands of dies for .223 and shot thousands of ground squirrels and prairie dogs.
Then when I did a controlled test.
A large randomly picked population of brass, each large population dedicated to a single resizing die, each seated with a Forster ultra seater, and shot the brass over and over in the same rifle.
After dozens of firings of each piece of brass, and some brass needing to be trimmed over and over...
Brass lasts a lot longer with Lee Collet dies.
Brass needs a lot less trimming with Lee Collet dies.
Cartridges are much more concentric as measured on the Sinclair concentricity gauge with Lee Collet dies.
Redding is the worst on all counts.
All the in between dies are in between.
Lee Collet is always the best.
And I left that Lee Collet die on the shelf for years, because it looked cheap.
I was so stupid.