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lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

 
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  #50  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:36 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

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Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
Try it next time with a standard Hi-Roc drill bit. They're made of a softer grade of carbide, and actually drill very accurately. Just crank of the suface speed, and cool it with something like basic grinder coolant (mist works best). A boring bar with a ceramic insert ought to work well too. The hardest ones I've recut were Lee's. They look like they are made of 4350 pretreat and have a very deep nitride case (plasma?) Lee does a very good job in their heat processes, and how they can get them that hard is amazing to me!

gary
I will keep that in mind but back then they did not exist and you could not buy one so I had to make what I needed , but now I would just buy one .
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  #51  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:43 AM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

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Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I will keep that in mind but back then they did not exist and you could not buy one so I had to make what I needed , but now I would just buy one .
just remember that like most all solid carbide drill bits you must keep everything pretty rigid mounted. The good thing about the Hi-Roc drills is that they are strait flute drill bits. Meaning that if you happen to break one (and I have more than a few times) they will be easier to get the remainder back out of the hole.
gary
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  #52  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:56 AM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Years ago, when I went my employer's machine shop to open up my FL sizing die necks, the shop forman suggested I chuck the die in a lathe headstock top end out. Then run it by hand with a dial indicator arm in its neck to check for runout; shim a jaw or two in the headstock to get it centered. Then run the lathe a few hundred RPM with a wood dowel with its split end holding emery paper going in and out of the die's neck to keep the neck perfectly centered on the dowel's emery cloth. Made sense to me so that's what I did. Took about 10 minutes per die to lap, clean, measure with a hole mic, then repeat as needed.

This is how rifle barrel blanks are gundrilled and reamed to bore diameter. The barrel turns keeping the fixed boring head well centered in the path of least resistance to the drill. The fixed reamer then well centers on the turning bore to finish it.

Drilling a bit into a stationary die neck typically off centers the bit to some degree depending on hardness variables of both the die and bit. And the hole's not going to be quite as perfectly round as spinning the die on a fixed bit would do.
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  #53  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:50 AM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
Years ago, when I went my employer's machine shop to open up my FL sizing die necks, the shop forman suggested I chuck the die in a lathe headstock top end out. Then run it by hand with a dial indicator arm in its neck to check for runout; shim a jaw or two in the headstock to get it centered. Then run the lathe a few hundred RPM with a wood dowel with its split end holding emery paper going in and out of the die's neck to keep the neck perfectly centered on the dowel's emery cloth. Made sense to me so that's what I did. Took about 10 minutes per die to lap, clean, measure with a hole mic, then repeat as needed.

This is how rifle barrel blanks are gundrilled and reamed to bore diameter. The barrel turns keeping the fixed boring head well centered in the path of least resistance to the drill. The fixed reamer then well centers on the turning bore to finish it.

Drilling a bit into a stationary die neck typically off centers the bit to some degree depending on hardness variables of both the die and bit. And the hole's not going to be quite as perfectly round as spinning the die on a fixed bit would do.

Never opened a die with a wooden dowl rod, but have used that process to remove metal from stuff before. With a Die and the actual short length you working with, a Sunnen hone is the way to go if you have one handy. Nice and strait with a nice suface finish when you get done. The hone simply follows the existing bore. An even easier way to do this is with a small boring bar like you use in a jig bore head. Setup a dial indicator after you first touch the suface, and make your cuts in reverse (from the inside of the die out). I like the hone process as the setup takes longer to find the right diameter hone than it does to do the job. Probably a dozen different ways to get to the same place. I did my first one on a B&S #13 grinder with the die chucked in a three jaw chuck.
gary
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  #54  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:06 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

"Drilling a bit into a stationary die neck typically off centers the bit to some degree depending on hardness variables of both the die and bit. And the hole's not going to be quite as perfectly round as spinning the die on a fixed bit would do"

In theory that's true, may be true in fact, but IME the difference is meaningless. There is no great value in a perfectly centered neck when boring it over size to use as a body die.

I use cheep carbide concrete drills diamond ground to my desired finished diameter to bore out the necks from the bottom of the die. I finish up with a split wood dowel and carbide paper as a lap, it easily removes and smooths any tiny shoulder burr.

I prefer to bore die necks on the lathe but I used a common drill press before I got the lathe. (Do love my old South Bend Model A 9"!)
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  #55  
Old 10-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

I think if one wants to just open up their full length sizind die's neck to a couple thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter, then turing the die in a lathe chuck is best. That'll keep the die's neck well centered on its body axis.

For making a "body" die, then drilling out the die's neck on a drill press would do just fine.

Regarding body dies, are they typically just going to size case body diameters down and not touch the shoulder at all? If so, what's wrong with just cutting off the die's top end at its shoulder?
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  #56  
Old 10-27-2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Drilling a bit into a stationary die neck typically off centers the bit to some degree depending on hardness variables of both the die and bit. And the hole's not going to be quite as perfectly round as spinning the die on a fixed bit would do"

In theory that's true, may be true in fact, but IME the difference is meaningless. There is no great value in a perfectly centered neck when boring it over size to use as a body die.

I use cheep carbide concrete drills diamond ground to my desired finished diameter to bore out the necks from the bottom of the die. I finish up with a split wood dowel and carbide paper as a lap, it easily removes and smooths any tiny shoulder burr.

I prefer to bore die necks on the lathe but I used a common drill press before I got the lathe. (Do love my old South Bend Model A 9"!)
* a drill going off center is often caused by miss alignment of the chuck itself as compaired to the work surface. In otherwords angled. But a typical two flute drill hanging way out there will flex enough to get you the same problem. Still if all your drill out is about ten thousandths the missalignment will be very minute at the worst. Twist drills are also prone to shifting to one side if not setup in a very tight situation. Plus its well known that a typical two flute twist drill does not cut a round hole. The flutes on a Hi-Roc drill bit are strait with a very short length. Holes are only slightly worse than a good quality reamer. They can be had in metric, letter, number, and fractional drill sizes.

* now if you decide to make a body die out of a standard Lee die, and use the wooden dowl rod trick; you'll be in for some serious time. Their dies seem to be harder and have a deeper case than the rest of the others. But it will work over time. The way to do it is to back bore the neck of the die and then lap it with a series of emery and black paper followed by a tight Scotchbrite pad (oil soaked)

* of course you could simply cut the head of the die off to where the neck part is maybe .10" long max. This would be much easier to cut; no matter what method. That's pretty much what I did, plus I cut about .04" off the big end as well.
gary
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