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lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

 
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2012, 05:14 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Especially cases coming out of large factory chambers with a bulge on one side and if that bulge sits on the gauge supports ."

I don't care how 'accurate' my runout is from a mechainst's point of view, what I want to see is no wiggle on that gage.

Given your recognition of how difficult it is to properly support a cartridge so the results are of runout rather than case inaccuracies drove me to make my own runout gage. Wanting to know the relitive angular displacement of the bullets led me to a system I've seen no where else.

The only machined surface on a case is the extraction groove. I have a 1/16" thick bit of sheet teflon with a "V" cut that the extractor cut drops into. A similar teflon V notch is adjusted to support the bullet just outside the case mouth. The dial indicator plunger is positioned as close to the meplat as possible but not where pointing irregularities could influnce the gage. Slowly turning each cartridge gives me consistant high and low readings at the same places, total indicated runout, over most of the bullet's exposed length and that's all I need.
try tooling balls sometime. Minimal area contact and max runout with them is about .0005" or less. If you get the ones with a shoulder on them they are extremely close.
gary
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  #30  
Old 10-22-2012, 08:51 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Especially cases coming out of large factory chambers with a bulge on one side and if that bulge sits on the gauge supports ."

I don't care how 'accurate' my runout is from a mechainst's point of view, what I want to see is no wiggle on that gage.

Given your recognition of how difficult it is to properly support a cartridge so the results are of runout rather than case inaccuracies drove me to make my own runout gage. Wanting to know the relitive angular displacement of the bullets led me to a system I've seen no where else.

The only machined surface on a case is the extraction groove. I have a 1/16" thick bit of sheet teflon with a "V" cut that the extractor cut drops into. A similar teflon V notch is adjusted to support the bullet just outside the case mouth. The dial indicator plunger is positioned as close to the meplat as possible but not where pointing irregularities could influnce the gage. Slowly turning each cartridge gives me consistant high and low readings at the same places, total indicated runout, over most of the bullet's exposed length and that's all I need.
That is an interesting idea and if it does what you need then it's a good idea.
It's a very complicated issue and as we are measuring loaded rounds they have been through sizing and seating dies that make changes to the brass.
What I do at the moment is use a V block to support the case in the middle away from the shoulder and base and rotate in that . It is far from perfect but it is cheap . What I do is indicate the neck first then the bullet and compare.
If the neck runs out then whatever I read on the bullet is also partly neck run out. If the neck is fine then whatever I read on the bullet is seating run out.
I am sure it is full of holes but it gives me an idea of how my sizer and seating dies are working . If I get more neck runout after neck sizing turned cases than I had just after firing then I get a new die or look at how I am sizing , cleaning , lubing , whatever .
I dumped expander ball type neck sizers in preference for Lee collet and bushing type dies and also full length dies in preference for body die . Also bought a few comp seater dies.
After that I saw straighter necks and less bullet run out but bad brass can screw you up some times .
My case necks are skim turned to do this but on other guns I don't neck turn so I don't bother testing bullet run out . I just tune to the best accuracy I can get and leave it at that.
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  #31  
Old 10-23-2012, 09:17 AM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

I gage necks by placing my 'bullet' teflon V block at the base of the neck and put the indicator near the mouth, that way I'm ONLY checking sized neck runout. It's been eye opening to see where and find how neck tilt comes into the picture. I love my Lee collet neck dies and my 'home made' body dies, got rid of my few bushing type sizers.

All of my 'accuracy' cases get skim turned about 80% of the circumference before use. Any that have excessive runout after firing and sizing gets tossed with no effort to salvage bad cases.
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  #32  
Old 10-23-2012, 06:57 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who\'s dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC0311 View Post
i personally like to use Hornady New Dimension Dies. All of my dies are Hornady and I think they are just as good as the expensive stuff. don't go with lee, youd be better off hammering the bullets in and taking a needle and hammer for the primer. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Wow ! All your dies are hornady. Well , I have and use all the major dies and IMO the hornady dies and the worst made by far. I just threw two sets in the garbage last month as I couldn't sell them in good concience. As for lee , they make the best of the less expensive brands. I fi.d the forster seater and a lee collet to be the best combo IMO. If you want to see a real POS piece of equipment look at the camlok trimmer from hornady. The design is flawed from the begining and the machining is third rate. Steel shaft through cast iron with mill marks all over the machined bearing surfaces. At first terribly rough and then just sloppy. I know because I boight one. It is the last tool I will ever buy from hornady. bought a wilson trimmer two months ago and after using it IMO it is the best !
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  #33  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:08 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
I gage necks by placing my 'bullet' teflon V block at the base of the neck and put the indicator near the mouth, that way I'm ONLY checking sized neck runout. It's been eye opening to see where and find how neck tilt comes into the picture. I love my Lee collet neck dies and my 'home made' body dies, got rid of my few bushing type sizers.

All of my 'accuracy' cases get skim turned about 80% of the circumference before use. Any that have excessive runout after firing and sizing gets tossed with no effort to salvage bad cases.
We sound like we are in sinc to some degree. I have also made my own body dies the first ones way back before Redding even made one .
What I did was cut the top off a Full Length size die and drill out the neck to creat a body die. I never used the term body die as it did not exist at that time.
I called my dies a Shoulder to Base die . Now I would not bother as a new Redding body die is cheaper to buy than making one . Now I have the facilities to turn one up from scratch if I wanted .
I still have one or two of the home made ones laying about in my gear some place . They werea bit rough but they worked a treat .
How did you make your body dies ? I am very interested to see how others have done it .
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who\'s dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveinjax View Post
Wow ! All your dies are hornady. Well , I have and use all the major dies and IMO the hornady dies and the worst made by far. I just threw two sets in the garbage last month as I couldn't sell them in good concience. As for lee , they make the best of the less expensive brands. I fi.d the forster seater and a lee collet to be the best combo IMO. If you want to see a real POS piece of equipment look at the camlok trimmer from hornady. The design is flawed from the begining and the machining is third rate. Steel shaft through cast iron with mill marks all over the machined bearing surfaces. At first terribly rough and then just sloppy. I know because I boight one. It is the last tool I will ever buy from hornady. bought a wilson trimmer two months ago and after using it IMO it is the best !
They make them intentionaly sloppy so the cutter pilot follows the case neck not the shaft bearing so much . That way they don't have to be as precisely made and still cut square to the neck axis but I agree the one I saw at the range was not well made either .
Wilson is more precisely made .
Hornady new dimention dies are not as bad as you are saying . I have two sets converted to micrometers just for hunting rifles and they load accurate ammo with care. A lot depends on how you use them . I agree that they are not as good as most of the others for sure but still usefull dies . Would I buy any more NO , but they do the job .
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  #35  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:49 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Maybe someone could post a video on the proper way to measure run out?
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