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lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

 
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2012, 01:58 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Thanks for that Joe, very kind and helpful of you!
Cheers
Fred
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2012, 03:27 PM
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Location: Mountians of SW NC, near Asheville
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

"Many people are measuring run out in the wrong way and getting extra "
error ."

True. But, a lot of people measure runout incorrectly and get much lower numbers than they really have. I know one guy who used the excellant Sinclair concentricity gage by positioning his dial indicator plunger directly above the steel balls so all he was reading was how round his bullets were! (It was easy to correct him tho, he was new to concentricity testing and was doing it wrong but he wasn't stupid! )

No matter how we measure runout or what our numbers are, what we should be working for is "0" and if we get that we're good no matter how we read it. (Unless we're just 'checking' the bullets themselves! )
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2012, 08:30 PM
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

I agree , but " extra error " can mean higher or lower numbers .
Above or below what it actually is , is still an error .
It is actually very hard to find the centre line of a cartridge case and have any device rotate said case on that perfect centre that relies on the outside of the case for a guide. Especially cases coming out of large factory chambers with a bulge on one side and if that bulge sits on the gauge supports .
As far as I can tell the only system that would come close to being a replica of how the cartridge case actually fits in the chamber would be a case holder system similar to a Wilson trimmer case holder rotating in precision bearings cut with the same chamber reamer .
However in a factory chamber you could get it showing no run out then chamber the cartridge and because of the need to have some clearance for easy chambering and neck clearance the case neck sits lower than perfect centre anyway.
Hence tight neck chambers , but in a factory chamber I use partial neck sizing to reduce this effect .
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  #25  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: greenwood, IN
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Many people are measuring run out in the wrong way and getting extra "
error ."

True. But, a lot of people measure runout incorrectly and get much lower numbers than they really have. I know one guy who used the excellant Sinclair concentricity gage by positioning his dial indicator plunger directly above the steel balls so all he was reading was how round his bullets were! (It was easy to correct him tho, he was new to concentricity testing and was doing it wrong but he wasn't stupid! )

No matter how we measure runout or what our numbers are, what we should be working for is "0" and if we get that we're good no matter how we read it. (Unless we're just 'checking' the bullets themselves! )
pretty good post to start out a Monday morning!!!
gary
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  #26  
Old 10-22-2012, 10:46 AM
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Location: greenwood, IN
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Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
I agree , but " extra error " can mean higher or lower numbers .
Above or below what it actually is , is still an error .
It is actually very hard to find the centre line of a cartridge case and have any device rotate said case on that perfect centre that relies on the outside of the case for a guide. Especially cases coming out of large factory chambers with a bulge on one side and if that bulge sits on the gauge supports .
As far as I can tell the only system that would come close to being a replica of how the cartridge case actually fits in the chamber would be a case holder system similar to a Wilson trimmer case holder rotating in precision bearings cut with the same chamber reamer .
However in a factory chamber you could get it showing no run out then chamber the cartridge and because of the need to have some clearance for easy chambering and neck clearance the case neck sits lower than perfect centre anyway.
Hence tight neck chambers , but in a factory chamber I use partial neck sizing to reduce this effect .
damn that's two great post to start out a Monday morning! Boy we are on a roll this morning!
gary
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2012, 04:05 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 733
Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

Thanks , that is very nice of you to say that . Good threads where people get involved and discuss things properly will always come up with better info .
There is good safe basic ways to reload but there is no perfect right or best way , only the way that gets the results you are wanting to achieve for what you do .
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  #28  
Old 10-22-2012, 04:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Mountians of SW NC, near Asheville
Posts: 1,596
Re: lee collet dies/rcbs dies/foster bonanza dies/who's dies are best?

"Especially cases coming out of large factory chambers with a bulge on one side and if that bulge sits on the gauge supports ."

I don't care how 'accurate' my runout is from a mechainst's point of view, what I want to see is no wiggle on that gage.

Given your recognition of how difficult it is to properly support a cartridge so the results are of runout rather than case inaccuracies drove me to make my own runout gage. Wanting to know the relitive angular displacement of the bullets led me to a system I've seen no where else.

The only machined surface on a case is the extraction groove. I have a 1/16" thick bit of sheet teflon with a "V" cut that the extractor cut drops into. A similar teflon V notch is adjusted to support the bullet just outside the case mouth. The dial indicator plunger is positioned as close to the meplat as possible but not where pointing irregularities could influnce the gage. Slowly turning each cartridge gives me consistant high and low readings at the same places, total indicated runout, over most of the bullet's exposed length and that's all I need.
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