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Reloading Techniques For Reloading


View Poll Results: Do you like ladder tests?
Yes 46 83.64%
No 9 16.36%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Ladder Tests

 
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  #22  
Old 04-05-2008, 08:59 PM
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"My only comment would be to shoot no less than 300 yds,"

Would you elaborate, why aren't the results at 200, or even 100 yards worth considering?

I don't shoot past 200 yard hunting nor 300 for varmits. Prefer to get closer, as a hunter more than a shooter I guess. Anyway, I start development with a ladder test at 100, when there is no significant wind to confuse things, and go to a modified OCW test when the nulls are found in the ladder test.

Can't understand why initial testing needs be done at much greater ranges, but do understand that not all 100 yard loads shoot well at longer ranges. ????

Last edited by boomtube; 04-09-2008 at 07:38 PM.
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  #23  
Old 04-23-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
Would you elaborate, why aren't the results at 200, or even 100 yards worth considering?

I don't shoot past 200 yard hunting nor 300 for varmits. Prefer to get closer, as a hunter more than a shooter I guess. Anyway, I start development with a ladder test at 100, when there is no significant wind to confuse things, and go to a modified OCW test when the nulls are found in the ladder test.

Can't understand why initial testing needs be done at much greater ranges, but do understand that not all 100 yard loads shoot well at longer ranges. ????
If you're shooting a factory gun with typical factory accuracy, you may be able to do it at 200 yards. With a custom gun, and the resulting accuracy, typically anything less than 300 yards only results in a lot of holes very close together and usually you will have shots going into areas where the target is all torn up.

Shoot it at 300 yards, or more, and it's easier to see what's going on, easier to mark the shots and easier to see where the nodes are. It's kind of like the difference in watching tv on a 12" screen vs a 42" plasma screen.

I shot a ladder test once at 300 yards and also loaded up some extra duplicates and also shot it at 100 yards. The result at 100 yards was just one big ragged hole in the target. The one shot at 300 had the shots spread out enough to track them, mark them and it also made it easier when done to interpret the results of the test.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2008, 05:12 PM
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what Dick said

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss7mm View Post
If you're shooting a factory gun with typical factory accuracy, you may be able to do it at 200 yards. With a custom gun, and the resulting accuracy, typically anything less than 300 yards only results in a lot of holes very close together and usually you will have shots going into areas where the target is all torn up.

Shoot it at 300 yards, or more, and it's easier to see what's going on, easier to mark the shots and easier to see where the nodes are. It's kind of like the difference in watching tv on a 12" screen vs a 42" plasma screen.

I shot a ladder test once at 300 yards and also loaded up some extra duplicates and also shot it at 100 yards. The result at 100 yards was just one big ragged hole in the target. The one shot at 300 had the shots spread out enough to track them, mark them and it also made it easier when done to interpret the results of the test.

Times 10 !! Dick , as usual you put it so well . Every time I see a fellow knee deep in brass at the range trying to dope a load for his new rifle I explain the " ladder test " to them .

Time and again the results they get makes them happier campers . Sure there are other methods out there . Always has been more than one way to skin a cat . But ................. the ladder test is so dang simple , results so reliable , ....................and it doesnt confuse as easily as some other methods .

Jim B.
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:25 AM
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No ladder tests, no OCW for me. I load up the bullet I want to shoot, and try 2-3 different powders. One will usually show to be more accurate. I work up to the max by watching the chronograph. I seat everyting touching the lands. If bullet wont show the ability to group (a recognizable shot pattern of some decent size) with any of my chosen 3-4 powders, then I pick another bullet. It works for me.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2008, 12:07 PM
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Re: Ladder Tests

I agree that the farther ANY load testing can be shot the better. That being said you can have success with 100yd ladders as well. I just got done working a load on a friends mod 700 sporter in 7 RUM. This rifle isn't designed to be a tack driver with that whippy factory bbl to begin with. After bedding the recoil lug I loaded 12 rounds at 1/2 grain increments from 96 to 101.5 w/ us 869 behind a 168 berger. The 96.5 to 98gr loads grouped well, the group opened quite a bit, then the 100 and 100.5 loads went right into the 96.5 to 98gr holes. I then found a best group at 100.3 grains shooting at 3220 avg. Moved out to 400M and shot a three shot group of 2.8" ctc. Good enough for a hunting rifle with minimal work done belonging to someone who will probably never take game farther than 400 anyway. I had repeatable hits with this load out to 600M on a mule deer sized target.
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2008, 07:40 PM
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Re: Ladder Tests

"anything less than 300 yards only results in a lot of holes very close together"

Okay, I understand. You are understandably seeking an "expanded scale". But, that confusion can be eliminated quite simply at 100 yards using my modified latter tests. Basically, I only fire a single round at a single target so there can be no cluster holes to swallow bullets at all.

When I load for a ladder test, I number each round with a Sharpie, which resists smudging very well on clean brass. If I get clumsy and spill them, they are easily restored to order. Then I number a series of small targets with the same numbers as the cases and shoot at them in turn. A notepad keeps track of the charge, or seating depth, and the velocity of each round is entered as I fire them.

When the shot series is complete, I take another target and make a composite of all the fired shots on it. I lay the fired targets over it in turn, marking the hole and numbering each as I go. If things start getting too cluttered, I simply make another composit target to keep things distinct and clean.

There is no confusion, no bullets are lost in the cluster and it's all done at 100 yards. And a couple of my old factory rifles, an original 22-250/Browning-Sako and a Rem 40xb/6mm International produce consistant groups under .5" during my ladder tests.

Last edited by boomtube; 09-18-2008 at 07:54 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-18-2008, 07:50 PM
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Re: Ladder Tests

I also use multiple targets, in pretty much the same way. But I don't transcribe them onto a single target. I measure the vertical component of each shot and graph the vertical difference between it and the shot before and after it (My spreadsheet takes the measured differences and computes the MOA differences and graphs them). The graph shows me where the nodes are. On a second graph, I graph the velocity differences against the shots before and after. When I get a node on the vertical distribution graph that is in the same spot as the velocity graph, I'm a happy camper. Here is an example from an excel spreadsheet.



A very accurate load was found around 57.5gr from this ladder test.

Hope this made sense.
AJ
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