Ladder Tests

[goodgrouper]

Originally Posted by Varmint Hunter

This is exactly why I do not do ladder tests. The longest rifle range in my area is 200 yds and it's 50 miles away.

I've read quite a bit about ladder tests and have come to the conclusion that (ladder) testing at 200 yds could raise more questions, or bring about more incorrect conclusions, than it would provide valid information to use as a basis for further load development.

Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth!

VH, I take it for more than two cents. Your post is invaluable!
The problem (at least the biggest problem) with ladder tests is the variables induced into the load development that can interfere with data. In load develolopment, you should be trying to find the INTERIOR ballistics, not worry so much about combining EXTERIOR with interior for the time being. For those fans of the ladder who think they are doing a ladder in calm conditions for 400 yards; you might see what's wrong with this method if you came out and used my windflags on the flat, open, desert floor here. Even when you think it's calm, one glance at the flags and you can see it's not! So there could be easily 8 or 9 bullet width's of condition in your "calm" condition. You might toss out a load that actually would work great or vice versa.

[royinidaho]

GG,

I don't do many ladder tests except for factory rifles which I don't shoot many of.

Whether a ladder test or some other method, shouldn't ya figure the wind in each shot? I do, when the wind is 10 mph or greater. At my 200 yd range the wind is only worth about 10-20% thus I ignor it. Especially when shooting 170 & 195 WCs and 300 Smks.

But with the 222 and the 40s and 50s I attempt to hold for the wind.

What can one do about interior ballistics any way. I understand nothing about that other than stuff like, the more full the case the better, proper primer for specific powder and volume........... Any hintz? Maybe on a different thread. A segway is taken unkindly buy a few, even if its a good segway.;)

[Slopeshunter]

Originally Posted by Ballistic64

I prefer the OCW method,but thats just me.

Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight Load Development

Thanks for the link. That was a good read.

[goodgrouper]

Originally Posted by royinidaho

GG,

I don't do many ladder tests except for factory rifles which I don't shoot many of.

Whether a ladder test or some other method, shouldn't ya figure the wind in each shot? I do, when the wind is 10 mph or greater. At my 200 yd range the wind is only worth about 10-20% thus I ignor it. Especially when shooting 170 & 195 WCs and 300 Smks.

But with the 222 and the 40s and 50s I attempt to hold for the wind.

What can one do about interior ballistics any way. I understand nothing about that other than stuff like, the more full the case the better, proper primer for specific powder and volume........... Any hintz? Maybe on a different thread. A segway is taken unkindly buy a few, even if its a good segway.;)

Wind will be a factor at any range but it is easier to distinguish it's effects at 100 yards than at 400.
And it doesn't matter if your shooting 300 grain smk's or a 120mm cannon, wind affects everything.

When I speak of internal ballistics, I am speaking of each individual component's role and the rifle's role in getting the bullet out of the muzzle. Primers, powder, charge, brass, bullet, barrel, receiver, lock time, etc. all have influence on how the bullet is launched. Using a chronograph and knowing how to "read" what it is telling you can tell you more about the load by a factor of 10 than any ladder test can ever show you. You will see nodes and peaks of accuracy, effeciency, and combustion. Team this information with grouping at short range and you can quickly find something to try at long range. Chronos are the most valuable tool to load development to come along since the introduction of the components themselves.

[Slopeshunter]

Goodgrouper,

Odd, I'm sure I posted this this afternoon, but it's not showing up?? Anyway,


Just curious did you ever have an opportunity to write up your scientific method?

ladder test? does it work

Also, what's your opinion of the OCW method?

thanks.

[goodgrouper]

Originally Posted by Slopeshunter

Goodgrouper,

Odd, I'm sure I posted this this afternoon, but it's not showing up?? Anyway,


Just curious did you ever have an opportunity to write up your scientific method?

ladder test? does it work

Also, what's your opinion of the OCW method?

thanks.

I haven't written up my scientific method yet. To tell you the truth, I don't even know where to start. How do you shrink thousands of tests and data reports and many years of personal experience into a single post?!
I'm not even sure if I can remember the whole thing but I need to find a way one of these days.

My opinion of the OCW method is that it has it's truths. But there are some guns I have found that don't seem to have an OCW if you follow the method line per line. But those guns can still be long range performers. So I guess I would say that the OCW is a good indicator and something to be mindfull of but it might make you believe there is no hope for a gun that might still show potential in the scientific method.

[Slopeshunter]

Originally Posted by goodgrouper

I haven't written up my scientific method yet. To tell you the truth, I don't even know where to start. How do you shrink thousands of tests and data reports and many years of personal experience into a single post?!
I'm not even sure if I can remember the whole thing but I need to find a way one of these days.

No worries. I recalled the thread from last winter where it was discussed somewhat and was never if you did write it up. Figured the best way was to just go ahead and ask.

Cheers!