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Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

 
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2014, 07:21 AM
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Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Joden,

1) I'm saying "rode hard and put away wet". Once I was finished with barrel break-in, the only thing that ever goes down my barrel is either a bullet or a rod, in conjunction with THE marked up bullet used to determine throat wear. DBC works that well.

I won't argue with GAP nor their reputation and their advice/technique. Though it surprises me they would advise to clean that often. Maybe, using their method, they can get tiny, smaller, groups then someone, like me, who never cleans. The purpose of not cleaning is two fold. 1) POI stays the same. A dirty barrel can and usually does have an impact different than a clean barrel. 2) Too many times, shooters do more harm to a barrel with bad cleaning techniques than not cleaning at all.

2) If done properly, you won't need 30-40 rounds to determine pressure limits. The first 10 rounds fired, in incremental increases, will show you where your "powder" limit is. Those 30-40 fired rounds will show you where your "accuracy node" is.

Alan
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  #30  
Old 05-02-2014, 12:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Griffith View Post
Joden,

1) I'm saying "rode hard and put away wet". Once I was finished with barrel break-in, the only thing that ever goes down my barrel is either a bullet or a rod, in conjunction with THE marked up bullet used to determine throat wear. DBC works that well.

I won't argue with GAP nor their reputation and their advice/technique. Though it surprises me they would advise to clean that often. Maybe, using their method, they can get tiny, smaller, groups then someone, like me, who never cleans. The purpose of not cleaning is two fold. 1) POI stays the same. A dirty barrel can and usually does have an impact different than a clean barrel. 2) Too many times, shooters do more harm to a barrel with bad cleaning techniques than not cleaning at all.

2) If done properly, you won't need 30-40 rounds to determine pressure limits. The first 10 rounds fired, in incremental increases, will show you where your "powder" limit is. Those 30-40 fired rounds will show you where your "accuracy node" is.

Alan
Your not afraid of putting in the barrel from sulphur, moister, and the carbon build up? I just feel weird about putting the gun up after shooting without even touching the barrel?

Joden
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  #31  
Old 05-02-2014, 07:27 PM
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Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Griffith View Post


I won't argue with GAP nor their reputation and their advice/technique. Though it surprises me they would advise to clean that often. Maybe, using their method, they can get tiny, smaller, groups then someone, like me, who never cleans. The purpose of not cleaning is two fold. 1) POI stays the same. A dirty barrel can and usually does have an impact different than a clean barrel. 2) Too many times, shooters do more harm to a barrel with bad cleaning techniques than not cleaning at all.

Alan
You will eventually get a carbon ring in the throat that will cause high pressure and hard loading unless you keep it clean. Plus seared in like that it will take weeks to get out.
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2014, 08:23 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mouth of Hobble Crk Canyon, Utah
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Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

I'm not going to argue with you nor am I going to try and convince you. It's your rifle and your choice. Let's please not turn this thread into a barrel cleaning argument and keep it on 1000 yd ladder testing.

Alan
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2014, 11:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 134
Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Griffith View Post
I'm not going to argue with you nor am I going to try and convince you. It's your rifle and your choice. Let's please not turn this thread into a barrel cleaning argument and keep it on 1000 yd ladder testing.

Alan
I know we got off topic, I just know based off your ladder test this isn't your first rodeo and had general questions that I knew you could help me out with. I just prepared my target per your method and hopefully Sunday I get a chance to shoot my fist ladder test.

Thanks Alan

Joden
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  #34  
Old 05-09-2014, 07:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 134
Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Griffith View Post
Joden,

1) I'm saying "rode hard and put away wet". Once I was finished with barrel break-in, the only thing that ever goes down my barrel is either a bullet or a rod, in conjunction with THE marked up bullet used to determine throat wear. DBC works that well.

I won't argue with GAP nor their reputation and their advice/technique. Though it surprises me they would advise to clean that often. Maybe, using their method, they can get tiny, smaller, groups then someone, like me, who never cleans. The purpose of not cleaning is two fold. 1) POI stays the same. A dirty barrel can and usually does have an impact different than a clean barrel. 2) Too many times, shooters do more harm to a barrel with bad cleaning techniques than not cleaning at all.

2) If done properly, you won't need 30-40 rounds to determine pressure limits. The first 10 rounds fired, in incremental increases, will show you where your "powder" limit is. Those 30-40 fired rounds will show you where your "accuracy node" is.

Alan

Alan,

Did the ladder test very closely to yours. I messed up a littler by using the same paper for the first two tests and some of the second ladder overlapped on the first..I figured they were afar enough apart but the wind picked up and blew the rounds from the first ladder over into the second. Did the test at 600y. The third ladder I got on video and I used colored markers and got good data but some of the lower charged rounds hit higher than they should of and doesn't make since to me. Plus the mirage was horrible in the san diego desert at 9-12 in the morning. Getting a little discouraged, for me it takes two hours to go to the range. That being said:

What do you think about doing the Optimal Charge Weight Test (OCW) Here's a link, you might have seen this method. Basically you shooting round robin like a ladder test but you shoot 1 round of each load at a different target, i.e., load one is shot at tgt 1, load 2 shot at tgt 2. Then you pick the 3 loads that all hit at the same POI on their respective targets and pick the middle of those loads as the accuracy node, not the load that simply shoots the smallest group. What are your inputs? Sick of waisting gas money and barrel life.

Thanks



OCW Overview - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System
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  #35  
Old 05-09-2014, 11:33 PM
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Location: Mouth of Hobble Crk Canyon, Utah
Posts: 623
Re: Ladder testing at 1k- Detailed article and video

Joden,

I know Dan and have talked at length with him about the OCW system. I'm not a fan; of the OCW. Dan's a great guy. I understand the pros and cons of each. If one has the distance to shoot, use that range. If not, shoot the OCW, but then you'll have to run right back out to a "long" range to verify/test the OCW results.

Once you shoot a ladder, mark each impact, then use your phone's camera and take a picture of it not just for posterity but for a "record" of the results. That way, if you do some how double or triple up on impacts in the same zone, you can sluice out the results.

When it comes to environmental conditions, time frame and available supplies, one has to know his limits.

Alan
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