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im going to start another controversial thread

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:59 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 793
im going to start another controversial thread

The thread i did on the long range ability of my 240wby raised some hackles. This one will probably raise more.

It in refernce to all the barnes tsx cheerleaders and ill throw in bonded bullets and most premium bullets. Most here when arguing for the use of them talk about excessive meat damage with cup and core bullets. Now before i get jumped im going to freely admit that power level of the gun im using is on the top ends side of whats needed but with barnes bullets i think the same results would have happened with an o6. Secondly i know that IF I WAITED paitiently for the perfect broadside shot and shot them through the chest the results would be differnt. But then isnt that why many use these bullets so that a raking shot isnt an issue due to deaper penetration. If not they why would you bother with them.

Here we go. I shot 4 deer in the last two nights with the 300 ultra using a 165 barnes tsx. Ranges from 225 to 390 on my range finder. All were about 100 lb does give or take 10lbs. Two were shot at a raking angle and the bullet made complete mush of one sholder and blew out the back right in the hind quarter and destroyed it too. The one at 390 was kind of my fault i judged the wind a bit wrong and hit it high and right on the front shoulder that one destroyed both shoulders and about half the back straps. Now that outcome would have probably been the same with a cup and core bullet. But the two raking shots would have probably had me eating those hind quarters if i had used cup and core bullets as the bullet probably wouldnt have penetrated that deaply.

I guess it just comes down to how much penetration do you really need on deer sized game. I shoot alot of deer every year and do it with about every bullet out there eventually but still keep going back to good old cup and core bullets. I probably would continue to use them even if bullets like the barnes were just as cheap. They just kill as well or better and with more shots then not do less meat damage then a deap penetrating bullet.

By the way just to stir the pot a bit with the guys on the 240 forum. Each and every one of those 4 deer dropped on the spot even the one that was shot through the chest broadside.

Dont get me wrong im not totally against tsx bullets. I use them in this gun and my 300 win mag and my 300H&H mostly though because all three of those guns shoot them better then anything else and if i ever need to step up to bigger game im ready. Ive also found that they do actually kill deer well in the 30 and even in the 7s which is totaly oposite of my results in the 6mms and 25s.

So let the fun begin. You can start telling me i cant shoot, dont know how to load, or am a slob hunter
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:32 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: montana
Posts: 156
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

So you think a "normal" cup and core bullet at RUM velocity is a good idea? mtmuley
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 793
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

on deer yes. Broadside behind the shoulder shots theyd would do like any bullet does and mess up the ribs but who cares. Front shoulder shot theyd do like any premium bullet would and that is destroy both shoulders. But a quartering shot like i was refering they would no doubt take out the front shoulder but very doubtfully would penetrate deap enough to take out a hind leg. Bottom line is cup and core bullets dont destroy more meat then premium bullets. Bullet placement is what causes meat damage and it really doesnt make a big differnce what bullet or even the caliber of the gun. Shoot them in the meat and your going to loose meat. I guess my point in this isnt really which destroys more meat its that you can spend four times more for bullets but your foolling yourself if you think you bought any advantage shooting deer sized game. By the way i shot aprox. 20 deer last season with my 7stw using 150 ballistic tips and was actually surpised that they didnt do any more damage then if i was shooting an 06. With either its like i said, shoot them in the meat and they will certianly ruin it. Shoot behind the shoulder and neither will cause much meat damage.biggest factor othe then bullet placement that will determine how much damage you get is how deaply the bulllet penetrates.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:12 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: West Texas
Posts: 141
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

I agree with you in that if you shoot in the meat it does not matter what type of bullet it will ruin meat and yes you are in the upper end of power, but like you stated with proper placement any bullet will work. I have taken to shooting does with my 22-250 and 69gr SMKs 1 pill to the head and down they go.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 2,236
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

Originally Posted by lloydsmale View Post
If not they why would you bother with them
Because I don't do cull work, or meat hunts. Generally I hunt with multiple species tags in my pocket. Some of those tags take a decade or more to draw, and may be limited to one in a lifetime. I buy $4 a gallon fuel to get where I'm going, and at times paying lots of dollars for guides etc., and wish to be prepared for the toughest shot offered.

Question is why are you doing it? You sound like someone is making you do this. If you just like seeing the splatter, own it, or stop it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:15 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Alaska
Posts: 3,344
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

The answer to bullet damaged meat has already been provided. The majority of the time, my experience has been that the game animal will provide the broadside shot, allowing the ribs to be targeted. Especially at longer ranges where the animal is generally out in an open area.

Even then on rib shots, I've experienced less meat damage with the Barnes TSX than with lead core cupped jacket bullets, unless they're of the bonded core variety.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 793
Re: im going to start another controversial thread

some may call me a sinner but i dont fool with ribs anyway. With the ammount of deer we shoot it isnt worth the bother and the critters in the woods have to eat too. Harperc nobody makes me do a thing. Ive just shot enough deer through the years that ive learned not to buy into the hype that is with many premium bullets. IMO a premium deer bullet IS a cup and core bullet. They are bullets designed to open up on thin skinned game like deer
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