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How much bullet into the case neck?

 
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  #1  
Old 03-06-2014, 08:44 PM
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How much bullet into the case neck?

I'm reloading for a .22-250AI on a Mauser 98 action with a 1-12" Shillen barrel.

To build a dummy round I'm chambering a bullet in a resized case. NO powder, NO primer. This measurement gives me 3.060" when measuered with a Sinclair Comparator from base to ogive WITH the comp. Total length would of course be minus the length of the comparator.

My issue is this: When loading 10 thou (.010") off the land to ogive I'm pretty sure I'm getting way less than 100 thou of bullet into the neck. I'd estimate between 60-100 thou. I'm no rocket scientist, but I'm pretty sure it should be more.

My question: How much of the bullet do I need pressed into the neck? Is 60-100 thou enough? Should I have double that??

Please don't suggest longer or heavier bullets. I've tried 50 and 55 grain bullets with NO luck. I'm trying to keep to the 36 gr and 40 gr bullets. Thanks Guys!!
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:01 PM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

I just measured my dummy round without the comp and I measure it at 2.486" which is .010" off the lands. My manual (Nosler #6) calls for a total length of 2.350". I know manuals are more like 'guide lines' and not really set in stone laws, but am I just going to be stuck with loading these shorter than I'd like??
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:49 PM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

I think the general rule is a minimum of one caliber of seating depth into the case neck.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:05 PM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

The general rule is of a physics point of view is one caliber. This was taught many years ago to those that wanted a answer but did not know the physics behind it. For any object to be stable it needs to be square. Same height same width with 90 degree corners. Case in example. A rectangle on end would topple over much easier than a square. This applied to a bullet would be that it has less "wobble" before it enters the rifling, especially in a freebore application. This is also why so many precision shooters want tight necks. Then many of the educated reloaders that had some engineering degrees and studied the actual working effects of 60000 lbs of instant pressure on a bullet base tested and concluded that neck tension is much more important than the square factor. Square factor is still very important but is not the only consideration. Forester dies has a great explanation on this. Al in All most os the time less neck tension will provide better accuracy. This is why some reloaders under stand to neck size down only half way down the neck. This aligns the cartridge better in your chamber and has less tension on the neck. Some of us really old gunsmiths remember this. AND I AM NOT ADVERTIZING.. I AM RETIRED AND NOW HAVIN FUN WITH IT. Work is having to do it. fun is wanting to do it.
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:43 AM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

The normal twist for a 22-250 Rem. is 1 in 14 so why would you go to a 1 in 12 twist and an improved case design and then want to limit your self to 40 grain bullets ?
You must be trying the wrong kind of 55 grain bullets .
The Sierra 55 grain HPBT should work very well in that rig .
In a CRF Mauser 98 action you should be feeding up from the magazine so you need some good projectile support . I'm not sure that is enough .
Run a few dummy loads through the action and then test the projectiles for run out. It's better to have a jump to the lands than badly out of centre bullets . If you can't get to the lands or close to it don't use Secant ogive bullets .
With the extra powder capacity and a 1 in 12 twist you should be able to stabilise upto a 64 grain flat base berger .
If you are struggling to get enough seating depth then forget boat tail bullets go flat base . 60 grain Berger would be good.
I know you said don't bother but I think you are on the wrong track with that gun.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:51 AM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullet bumper View Post
The normal twist for a 22-250 Rem. is 1 in 14 so why would you go to a 1 in 12 twist and an improved case design and then want to limit your self to 40 grain bullets ?
You must be trying the wrong kind of 55 grain bullets .
The Sierra 55 grain HPBT should work very well in that rig .
In a CRF Mauser 98 action you should be feeding up from the magazine so you need some good projectile support . I'm not sure that is enough .
Run a few dummy loads through the action and then test the projectiles for run out. It's better to have a jump to the lands than badly out of centre bullets . If you can't get to the lands or close to it don't use Secant ogive bullets .
With the extra powder capacity and a 1 in 12 twist you should be able to stabilise upto a 64 grain flat base berger .
If you are struggling to get enough seating depth then forget boat tail bullets go flat base . 60 grain Berger would be good.
I know you said don't bother but I think you are on the wrong track with that gun.
In the past I've gotten much better accuracy with 36 gr Barnes VG and 40 grain Sierra's. No such luck with the 55 gr Sierra or 55 gr Vmax. Thats why I really want to stay with the lighter bullets. Plus 4200-4300 fps is pretty nice too!
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:55 AM
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Re: How much bullet into the case neck?

My 22-250 is likewise built on a '98 Mauser with a 12 twist Shilen barrel. I am mystified that you are having trouble with the 50 and 55 grain bullets. When I had a 14 twist A&B barrel, the 50 VMAX and 52 AMAX shot the best. With a 12 twist, the 55's are shooting VERY nicely and I am about to try the 53 VMAX.

At any rate, I have found that many 22-250 chambers have a lot of freebore. My advice is to not obsess over getting close to the rifling. When I actually test for seating depth, I have found that almost every rifle I own shoots more accurately with significant jump to the rifling. My advice is to start with your bullet seated as far out as you are comfortable seating it, then do the Berger Bullets seating depth test. It doesn't matter what bullet you are using. Your rifle will more than likely tell you what seating depth it likes with a given bullet. After you figure that out, do your powder charge run up.
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