Long Range Hunting Online Magazine Hornady Concentricity Gauges?
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#22
09-07-2010, 08:25 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bryan, Tx Posts: 284

Nice post woods! Maybe the rain/weather is getting to me, but I generally look forward to the challenge of shooting in adverse conditions. It is what separates the men from the boys!

I guess I kind of felt attacked by certain "members" disrespecting other LRH'ers posting of opinions and conjecture or Shakespearean soliloquy or (hardly) abstract philosophical dissertation. I can certainly verify that 95% of what is posted on this (or any website) is just opinion. Interpret it as you will. Enjoy the social aspects. It is what we are all passionate about. It is why I am sitting at my computer right now. I love all the opinions, witty banter, and conjecture. Keep it coming. I learn from you guys every day.

But... I have seen very little "data" or even "field reports" that would stand up to even the most basic statistical test. Not to knock your work Woods (I'm with you), but, maybe you just shot better in the second group! This makes "your" conjecture more like fact and now people reading this post will think that the magic Hornady tool might/can shrink their groups. Maybe, maybe not. We all agree straighter ammo is likely to shoot smaller groups. However, if the members request data not based on "conjecture", then a statistical test is the only resolution. For members that don't understand the term conjecture, but use it in ignorance, I suggest wikipedia.
#23
09-07-2010, 10:45 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mississippi Posts: 432

I pose this question. My buddy I and sort our ammo in f-class .001 .002 together then we separate .003 and .004. We see no difference between them. I hit the x ring just as many times with .004 as I do with .001. The question, if you're seating your bullets 20 to 30 thousand in the rifling, and your chamber is cut perfect wouldn't your .004 run-out go to .000 or .001 chambered?
#24
09-08-2010, 06:39 AM
 Bronze Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 32

Quote:
 Originally Posted by mo I pose this question. My buddy I and sort our ammo in f-class .001 .002 together then we separate .003 and .004. We see no difference between them. I hit the x ring just as many times with .004 as I do with .001. The question, if you're seating your bullets 20 to 30 thousand in the rifling, and your chamber is cut perfect wouldn't your .004 run-out go to .000 or .001 chambered?
Seems that having a shorter leade or freebore tends to minimize the effects of misaligned bullets..........makes sense & apparently the theory proved out on the target paper.

Good information.
__________________
Life Member - NRA & GOA
#25
09-08-2010, 05:15 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NC, oceanfront Posts: 4,197

Quote:
 Originally Posted by mo I pose this question. My buddy I and sort our ammo in f-class .001 .002 together then we separate .003 and .004. We see no difference between them. I hit the x ring just as many times with .004 as I do with .001. The question, if you're seating your bullets 20 to 30 thousand in the rifling, and your chamber is cut perfect wouldn't your .004 run-out go to .000 or .001 chambered?
Great questions.
Two campfires here, and they're barely within sight of each other:

1. Those who run with loose chambers and very high pressure loads. They Jam everything, FL size everything, neck turn nothing. These tend to be competitors using turn-key cartridges & guns.
2. Those who run with tight chambers and lower pressure loads. They put every effort into precise control over their loaded ammo. Again competitors, and varmint hunters, often using wildcat cartridges.

Hard not to argue for/against either, and they frequently banter in forums on a wide range of reloading subjects.
One of them is RUNOUT -vs- CONCENTRICITY, and their affects.
They are completely different, but definitions aside, they boil down to this:
-Concentric means a bullet points with case centerline. Bore centerline might be achieved provided headspace is zero and there is enough chamber clearance to prevent misalignments from runout. This means FL sized and jammed.
-Low runout means a loaded cartridge is straight, and concentric, independent of chambering. This is as good as you can do for rounds seated OFF the lands. But tighter clearances in every respect are in order to get bullets pointed down the bore centerline. It's more work for sure.

I don't believe it's easy to prove that either improved concentricity, or reduced runout, would always provide gains.
I'm sure it's easier to demonstrate otherwise.

One guy shoot's great with weighed charges. Another shoots great without weighing charges.
Hell I work with a guy who's 30br banana's can clean my perfect 6br ammo's clock at 200yds.
Is it because my fitted necks and fitted coaxial throat, and TIR below .0005 are a bad thing?
Or because of our stocks, scopes, bullets, & barrels?
Could I convince him that he needs straighter ammo -like mine?
Not while he's cuttin ragged holes next to my daisies...

I'd be ashamed to narrate my efforts!
#26
09-08-2010, 09:19 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: mississippi Posts: 432

Mikecr I posted that question just for you. I was hoping to get your input on the subject. You have forgot more then I'll ever know when it comes to concentricity . I always like to read your post. Thanks

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