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Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

 
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2010, 06:52 AM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

I got one of these gizmos too. I haven't used it and don't know if I will. Just didn't want you to feel alone

Try it out and report back. Good or Bad you'll help some other guys out.
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  #16  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:39 AM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmason View Post
I got one of these gizmos too. I haven't used it and don't know if I will. Just didn't want you to feel alone

Try it out and report back. Good or Bad you'll help some other guys out.

Yah..........my useless tool shelf has a few dust covered occupants from over the years that I "bit the gimmick hook" on. I can truly say that they all hit the intended target once.........MY WALLET.

I straightened a few cartridges out with the Hornady tool.........most of my ammo didn't need it but there were 3 or 4 approaching .005" of runout that I nudged back to under the .002" red-line of acceptability........possibly future "fliers" that I find so frustrating & irritating when they spoil a good group.

It's not a forceful bend perse......rather a gentle nudging perpendicular to the cartridge's longitudinal axis.

But without range results on the target paper it's all pure speculation at this point & no "expert/guru" is going to tell me he can prove/disprove a theory at first glance without first trying it at the range & seeing over time if the tool results in tighter groups/fewer annoying fliers.

Anxiously awaiting some from-the-range results.

Last edited by pricedo; 09-04-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2010, 04:48 PM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

Lots of opinions about the tool based on conjecture & anecdotal "information".

Some dismiss the idea of taking corrective action in regards to runout out of hand.

I'm sure that many scoffed at the idea of a horseless carriage, a flying machine & going to the moon.

There will always be perpetual naysayers who won't even give a novel idea a fair trial.

Haven't seen any opinions based on results yet.

Just tested a few of boxes of Remington factory loads that are giving me "reasonable" groups at the range..........plenty accurate for big game hunting........some were OK (.002" or less runout) and some were over .005".

I'm going to straighten a couple of boxes out with the Hornady tool & leave a couple "as is" & compare the groups.
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  #18  
Old 09-06-2010, 07:53 PM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

WOW. 16 replies and 2400 views all with zero field data reported thus far since dec 2008??? Maybe there is a reason for the lack of "field data".... Maybe the hornady gizmo (certainly not a novel idea) just doesn't really matter all that much in the big picture. Maybe you can shoot better with 0.005 runout than I can with 0.001. So many other factors to consider. I had near perfect ammo today and had trouble even getting on paper due to inclement weather conditions.

Send us your field data, but I'll need a double blinded study with both positive and negative controls including ALL external factors controlled (weather, temp, humidity, altitude, distance, shooter to shooter variation, guns used, scopes, just to name a few ...) all data with sufficient statistical power, repetition and publication to make a clear choice. This is apparently necessary since all everyone seems to report is "conjecture & anecdotal information".

I don't use the tool because I don't like the thought of fixing mistakes at the end of my work (both fact and opinion). When we build a foundation for a house, we lay the concrete straight and true at the start (hopefully) and don't try to fix a crappy foundation with fancy carpentry. Same is true with reloads (this is my opinion).

I hope you can prove me a liar and tell me that all my time in the reloading shop has been wasted and I can stop all this mindless drabble and I can just build crappy ammo from the start and wave a magic hornady wand over them to make them perfect. Maybe we didn't answer your question directly, but 2400 other viewers over many months haven't either, so I believe (again my opinion) you have your answer... retrospectively.
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  #19  
Old 09-06-2010, 09:17 PM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

Damn n, all this rain getting to ya?

I did one small test on straightened ammo vs unstraightened but I use the Bersin




that one flyer was a shot that went off the same time as a 30-378 (with muzzle brake) went off on the bench next to me. Shoulda timed it better.

Anyway my runout on the unstraightened ammo was .002" to .005" and the straightened ammo .002" or less. Not a big difference.

But I am like you in that I would rather load straight ammo to begin with and not rely on straightening it afterwards. And if I had it to do over again I would still have that money I spent on the Bersin.
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  #20  
Old 09-06-2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"The overall concensus seems to be to prevent runout and not "fix it"."

Your concensus aside, the question is, "How well does the tool work?"
I am in the middle of a test to prove whether or not this or any other tool that actually
straitens out run-out is worthwhile.

I purchased the Hornady to see if it could save poorly loaded ammo (Like the factory stuff)
and some that did not come out very good for one reason or the other.

There is no doubt that concentric ammo will improve accuracy. How much is part of the test.

I loaded some ammo and sorted by amount of concentricity(Run-out) and took some of the
loads that were over .001, .002, and .003 and straitened them in groups of 3 from .001 to
.000 (If I could get them that close) and from .002 to .001, and .003 to .002 to see the
effects of truing them on SDs and groups.

I found some factory loads that were .006 to .008 out and found that is you try to true them
to much they will loosen the bullet grip of the case(Not Good).

Loading good ammo is the best cure for this problem but even with the best technique
sometimes they will have run-out, so the question is can you fix it ?

So my plan was/is to first sort to find the least run-out and use them for the long shots. Then
use the ones that are only .001 or .002 out for second or backup shots.

Then see if buy truing the stuff that is more than .002 out of true if it is usable.

I will tell you this the tool "WILL" true the ammo up close to .000 some times but not all ways
so I settled for anything under .001.

Whether the trued ammo will improve or match the performance of the loaded ammo that is
true after loading, remains to be seen.

I will post an unbiased report as soon as it is finished. and it does show if your loading
tekneek is poor like a lot of other tools will. but if will improve the ammo I want to know.


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  #21  
Old 09-06-2010, 10:46 PM
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Re: Hornady Concentricity Gauges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by woods View Post
Damn n, all this rain getting to ya?

I did one small test on straightened ammo vs unstraightened but I use the Bersin




that one flyer was a shot that went off the same time as a 30-378 (with muzzle brake) went off on the bench next to me. Shoulda timed it better.

Anyway my runout on the unstraightened ammo was .002" to .005" and the straightened ammo .002" or less. Not a big difference.

But I am like you in that I would rather load straight ammo to begin with and not rely on straightening it afterwards. And if I had it to do over again I would still have that money I spent on the Bersin.
At long last..........Thank You !!

I wasn't looking for a Shakespearean soliloquy or abstract philosophical dissertation....just some objective range reports on the effectiveness of the Hornady tool.

A picture or two is worth a thousand words.

The second (straightened) group in the photos is noticeably tighter than the first (unstraightened) group.

I'm into any action or equipment that can improve the accuracy of my ammo either before or after the reloading operation.

Thanks once again woods .....good info..........much appreciated.
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