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H4350 and still no success

 
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  #1  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:14 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posts: 814
H4350 and still no success

Well I finally got some H4350 and could not wait to get to the range and find out how it would shoot in my New .243AI I have been somewhat discouraged with the performance of this rifle after spending the $2000 to have it converted. Well, the best group size measured .957. I started out with a beginning load of 43.5gr and working up to 47.0 seating the 90gr Ballistic tip .020 off the lands. The best group of .957 was at 46.0 Very dissapointing. The fact is that it shoots worse than when it was a factory Rem 700 in the 7mm-08. I did get some H4831SC this weekend and will try that tomorrow staring out at the high load with the standard .243 and working up in .5gr increments. When it was a 7mm-08 I used Varget and the 120gr Barnes TSX and it would hold .7 I borrowed a Rem 700in a ,243 for my antelope hunt, as my rifle was not completed yet and with factory Barnes ammunition was getting .745 with the 80gr TSX.
I still believe that with the rifle I have I should be getting much better accuracy performance than I am...................
What am I doing wrong?

My rilfe was put together by Carolina Prcision Rifles ........................PacNor SM barrel 24inch #4, Jewell trigger , McMillian stock.......................

If I had to do it over I would have ordered a Cooper, at least with Cooper they give your their accuracy load and that way you have a good starting point..............

One of the things that I still think about is that when talking with John Lewis of CPR I ask him if this Rifle has the potintial to shoot under .5 .................He would not say yes, .........................................If H4831SC dones not work I will try H1000............................then im all ears .

I just need some encourgement and some constructive advice.

Greg
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 213
Re: H4350 and still no success

All I can say is that I know how you feel. I have been trying different powders and bullets in my 270, and nothing. But I have seen the light. I got the smallest group I got with one powder and then started playing with the seating depth. It worked well. Have u worked on the seating depth. Remember that if u are only trying powders, u are still half way only. The last factor is adjusting seating depth.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Elkford B.C. Canada
Posts: 111
Re: H4350 and still no success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Duerr View Post
Well I finally got some H4350 and could not wait to get to the range and find out how it would shoot in my New .243AI I have been somewhat discouraged with the performance of this rifle after spending the $2000 to have it converted. Well, the best group size measured .957. I started out with a beginning load of 43.5gr and working up to 47.0 seating the 90gr Ballistic tip .020 off the lands. The best group of .957 was at 46.0 Very dissapointing. The fact is that it shoots worse than when it was a factory Rem 700 in the 7mm-08. I did get some H4831SC this weekend and will try that tomorrow staring out at the high load with the standard .243 and working up in .5gr increments. When it was a 7mm-08 I used Varget and the 120gr Barnes TSX and it would hold .7 I borrowed a Rem 700in a ,243 for my antelope hunt, as my rifle was not completed yet and with factory Barnes ammunition was getting .745 with the 80gr TSX.
I still believe that with the rifle I have I should be getting much better accuracy performance than I am...................
What am I doing wrong?

My rilfe was put together by Carolina Prcision Rifles ........................PacNor SM barrel 24inch #4, Jewell trigger , McMillian stock.......................

If I had to do it over I would have ordered a Cooper, at least with Cooper they give your their accuracy load and that way you have a good starting point..............

One of the things that I still think about is that when talking with John Lewis of CPR I ask him if this Rifle has the potintial to shoot under .5 .................He would not say yes, .........................................If H4831SC dones not work I will try H1000............................then im all ears .

I just need some encourgement and some constructive advice.

Greg

Have you tried RL 19. It works great in my 243!
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  #4  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 2,560
Re: H4350 and still no success

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunpower View Post
Have you tried RL 19. It works great in my 243!

You beat me to it. RL-19 was my go to powder in the 243AI. I am also having promising accuracy with Ramshot Big Game & the 87grn V-max in the standard 243.


t
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"I, however, view ethics as an individual decision. My ethics are mine - and I won't explain or justify them to anyone else. I seek nobody's approval, just that of my own conscience. "

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  #5  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:24 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
Re: H4350 and still no success

Hey Greg,

I feel your pain. I have definitely been there. I just wanted to share my experience as it may give you a few different ideas.

So I had a pac-nor stainless steel super match grade barrel installed on a winchester action. I did all the usual reloading variations from different powders to different bullets/seating depths to get it to shoot (just like you are doing). I just could not get the gun to shoot better than 1.5 moa. So I sent the barreled action back to pac-nor, and their response was "why didn't you send us this gun ealier?". They checked it out and determined that they had in fact drilled the counterbore of the chamber incorrectly. Honestly, I did not fully understand the specifics of how/where the problem was in the chamber, but they fixed the problem that they were able to see. They also said that with this kind of issue, that they really had no evidence one way or another that it would in fact cause an accuracy problem... Overall I was very happy with their customer service.

Took the gun to the range... still would not shoot. So after a lot of painful hours and dollars spent shooting and lots of experimenting (details are not important) I sent the scope back to Leupold. They immediately found a problem in the windage/elevation control mechanisms, fixed the problem. They had the same exact reponse as pac-nor: "please do not hesitate to send back the scope in the future if you have any problems, and don't wait so long next time!".

Straight to the range and the rifle was shooting 1/2 - 3/4 moa. So the problem really was in the scope all along... I technically have no way of proving this, but I don't think pac-nor's chamber issue was the cause of the problem. Leupold verified the problem and fixed it and then the gun shot great. and I'm talking GREAT. and now the gun will shoot just about any load and any powder well, and when you dial it in it's simply superb.

So my personal experience is that when you have a gun that is a shooter, it simply shoots just about anything pretty well, and then a tuned load is amazing. And from the description of your gun, you've got everything in place... that gun should shoot! And when I read your post it reminded me of my 338 win mag and maybe you have some component with a small flaw/error in it ??

When you add up the cost of gunpowder and bullets, and time reloading and shooting, you quickly see that paying for postage back to pac-nor or your scope back to the manufactuer to have them check it out may very well be worth it. There was a point when I was cursing pac-nor and sweared I would never get another pac-nor barrel (and leupold!). But now looking back on the experience (it was many years ago) I have had a few more pac-nor barrels installed on different guns and they ALL shoot very very well. So I really don't know any specifics about your gun, and maybe none of this info will help you at all... It just struck me that you've got a gun that should really shoot well, and it looks like you are doing every trick in the book to make great ammo for it... just don't give up on it! Good luck and let us know if you figure it out!

-Chad
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  #6  
Old 04-22-2013, 11:40 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Posts: 2,560
Re: H4350 and still no success

Timber,

You experience is well worth sharing, sometimes assumption can bite us in the rear. I assumed the "normal" accuracy blues checklist has been gone through (this might be a great independent thread). Rifle action screws properly torqued, base screws properly torqued, ring cross bolts properly torqued, ring cap bolts properly torqued, bore properly cleaned & scope zero & repeatability properly verifled.

An optic not perfoming properly is much harder to verify, ESPECIALLY if you're tryinig to work loads for a new, unproven rifle. One cannot simply run a box test or a verticle adjustment graph to test tracking & repeatability with your test rifle as there is little to no knowledge as to accuracy. Now, a true custom rifle "should" digest pretty much everything <1moa @ 100 but there are no guarantees in life.

Your story is a great reminder to K.I.S.S..... something that I know I often struggle with.


t
__________________
"I, however, view ethics as an individual decision. My ethics are mine - and I won't explain or justify them to anyone else. I seek nobody's approval, just that of my own conscience. "

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  #7  
Old 04-22-2013, 04:56 PM
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 565
Re: H4350 and still no success

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw6.0 View Post

An optic not perfoming properly is much harder to verify, ESPECIALLY if you're tryinig to work loads for a new, unproven rifle.

t
It was a brand new Leupold VX3 LR, and I just blindly assumed it would be perfect. But as I slowly checked/replaced other components I realized that the only thing I had not touched/checked was the scope. So what I did was mount a scope from a different rifle that I knew shot well. BINGO! Gun shot great.

And had I been smarter back then, I should have seen from my groups that the rifle shot very consistent bad groups ... meaning two shots would be within about a 1/2 inch of each other, or often times touching, and there would always be a flyer, where the one bad shot was very much the same from group to group, about 1.5 - 2 inches from the two good shots... I should have keyed in on the scope sooner. When Leupold finally confirmed that the mechanism had an issue from initial manufacturing, it was like a light-bulb went off... the mechanism would always slip under the heavy recoil, but the slippage was always consistent. So the mechanism was toggling between two positions... so with a 3 shot group, 2 of the shots had to be fired from the same position.

Luckily I wasn't all dumb... when I got the scope back from leupold and started to work up a load, I was able to get really close to a perfectly tuned load by just looking at all my old targets/loads, and identifying which groups had the best 2-shot group.
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