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Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

 
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  #22  
Old 01-05-2010, 12:19 AM
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Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Yes, That is my ? towards a 257 WM, HAD good luck w/87 gr. for accuracy, but not much for BC, Been really fighting the 115, but want to shot them for speed goats. Anybdy else luck w/257 WEATHERBY, STOCK BARREL
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2010, 09:41 PM
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Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBboy25 View Post
Marine Sniper:

I've got a .300 Win. Mag. (I know you have a .300 Wby.) I'll be loading up with 210 VLD's soon and was curious what flavor of powder you're using in you Berger 210 load and your Nosle 200 grian AB load. Thanks
H1000 in my 300win and Retumbo in my 300um
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2010, 01:52 AM
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Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Len Backus View Post
Berger Bullets' Eric Stecker has just made available a tech bulletin in Word format.

You may download it here to save it one your own computer or read it online.



Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Background

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifles. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.


Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
Thank you for a very informative paper!
I am wanting to try the 300gr Berger VLD in my .338 Lapua (actually the Allen Express), and wonder if anyone can share some experiences? I have heard the 300gr/.338 tends to come apart when it approaches 3000fsec.
I'm a rookie in the (re)loading dept. so any info is appreciated.'
With anticipation,
terjeness
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2010, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 16
Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

I thought I had posted a followup to my load questions on this thread from summer 2009, but maybe not.. so here's what happened.

I got a box of 140gr VLD's from Bergers and followed the Berger suggestions for hunting load development. Found that for my Tika, the sweet spot was around 0.100 off the lands. And that was great for the long throated gun as the bullets then fit great in the magazine. Used H4831SC powder, Winchester cases & primers. Had great results at 63gr and 65 gr (less than MOA) but over MOA with 64 gr. Net result was being blessed with a great Dall ram in the Brooks Range. Thanks to all of you that offered ideas and advice. Picture at Berger's Hunting Success Stories..
Hunting Stories
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2010, 01:28 AM
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Location: Whittier, CA
Posts: 8
Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Hi,

New to this sight, and I am looking for a little help on load info for a:

Dessert Tactical 338 Lapua Mag
using the Berger 300gr hybrid bullet

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Thanks
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2010, 12:09 PM
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Posts: 85
Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Quote:
Originally Posted by kstrick View Post
Read this thread which is on the LRH home page.

Optimizing Precision And Accuracy From VLD Bullets

I am a big fan of Berger bullets. Go to their web site and ask for some loading advice for the .308. They have always sent me loading data. They are really some great guys. Also, they are coming out with their own loading manual...hopefully in August.
Good luck.
Ken

Amazingly, my email sent 10 days ago still has been answered from Berger employees! So all the letters to get optimized whatever doesn't do any good. Especially when you can't get a response or projectiles!


Guess this letter would work for Sierra MK's too, and their employees don't just sweep the little people under the rug when asked a question in an email!



Scott
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2010, 12:34 PM
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Re: Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from Berger VLD bullets in Your Rifle

Well, if the email you sent Berger was as incoherent as your post here then I fully understand.



Berger 115s from 240 Wby @ 3250fps
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