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The Frustration Continues!!

 
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  #1  
Old 07-09-2012, 07:46 PM
BML BML is offline
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The Frustration Continues!!

So I've been developing a load for my Savage 6.5x284 for what seems like an eternity now. Finally about a month ago I found a load that shot .354. I had to scrap my old brass before I could retest that load, but with brand new brass I shot .455. I finally thought I had found my load so I loaded up 10 rounds to shoot at 300 yards this past weekend.

Here's the load:
Norma Brass
140g AMAX .010 into the lands.
Fed 210 primer
51.0g H4831SC

I shot all 10 rounds this weekend and what a disappointment! Here's the results: Could only stretch it to 283 yards where I shot that day.



This is max load for my rifle. I get minor extractor marks on the case head but it's by far the best velocities and ES out of all the loads I've tested. Of the 10 shots, I took off the highest and lowest speeds and the average was 3074 with an ES of 14.

Again this was with brand new brass so I know I will have to retest again with fire formed brass. My new brass prep included neck sizing, turned necks, trimmed, chamfered and de burred.


Any thoughts on why I am all over the place with these 10? I know I am no where near being a good 1000 yard shooter, but 283 yards is not a difficult shooting distance for me at all.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:10 PM
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

Was it hotter out the last time at the range? I'm getting roughly the same groups out of my rifles whether the brass is fired or not. Fresh brass simply isn't that different to make a 1/2" or less load toss to 4-5" at 300 like that. You should by at 1.5"-2" at that range.
You are also rather hot on your powder charge considering you are into the jamb. Hodgdon online lists 49.5 as top load in the 6.5x284 with a 140speer and 50.3 with a 142 sierra. I don't have the hornady book but trust hodgdon that their charges aren't soft. I've hit the wall with their data half-way up more than once.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:25 PM
BML BML is offline
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

Temps were a touch cooler this time. The sun broke through the clouds after shot 5 so I put up the EZ up for shade. I did not shoot from under it but rather used the shade to keep the barrel from heating up from surface heat.

I know I'm at max load. The best I've been able to shoot with any seating depth out of the lands has been .441 with 48g but I'm only getting 2600 (ill have to check) or so fps. I wasn't able to reproduce that result and 2600 won't give me the down range energy I need anyway.


I've tested every powder charge seated at .010 into the lands except 50.8, 50.7 and 50.6. I guess before I try anything else I should test those first.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:45 PM
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

What I'm getting at is you are stressing your rifle; why would it shoot well. I often don't shoot max. powder charge for a rifle, as it usually screws up accuracy even if it helps uniformity.
An hour ago I was loading some 270's that go about 2700 fps with a 130. They shoot great, but that bullet is flakey if I take it to 3000 fps. I usually am off the rifling at least .020" also. Setting on the lands or worse into the lands, will raise your pressure a bunch. It's effect is equal to at least a grain or two in powder charge added.
I think you are wasting a bit of time at .1 grain differences in powder and should stay to 1/2 grain. I don't even bother with .1 grain in my 5.56 nato.
You are about 100 fps slow according to Hodgdon, and that's about normal for a lot of sporters. I don't get over 3K on many 270 loads even if they speck at 3100 fps with 130's.
Why don't you try hybrid 100v or I 4350, as they show lower charge weight and higher velocity. The faster burning powder will drop your muzzle pressure, which likes to kick the rear of the bullet out and instigate yaw. Yaw won't be very apparent at 100, but will blow your group as you get out a ways.
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:47 PM
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

When you have the right load, it won't be that sensitive to new brass--it should still shoot tight, like usual.

here is a link to my OCW load development method... it should help you get the right load in 20 shots or less... then if you want to fine tune it for even greater accuracy, you can go to seating depth adjustments and fire another 20 shots or so... and you'll be there.

OCW Overview - Dan Newberry's OCW Load Development System

lots of folks prefer H4350 over 4831 in the 6.5/284, others recommend slower powders, H1000 being mention a lot, but at charges higher than Hodgdon's data shows for max... but whatever powder you choose, your load development method will be key in finding the right powder charge.


Dan
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:36 PM
BML BML is offline
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

Dan,

I appreciate that link. There's some great info there. I wish I would have read it about 200 rounds ago. I knew NOTHING about reloading when I started. Although I have learned a lot I feel like I have wasted more time and money than it's been worth. It's very frustrating. I'm going on two years now and I sometimes feel like I'm still where I first started. I'm going to give your method a try. I have a couple questions for you. I have a brand new tub of H4831sc still. In your opinion should I stick with it or try the H4350? And second I only have 10 pieces of fire formed brass. Will your method work with brand new brass or should I fire form 10 more pieces first?

Thanks again for all the tips fellas. I appreciate it.
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Old 07-10-2012, 07:15 AM
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Re: The Frustration Continues!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BML View Post
Dan,

I appreciate that link. There's some great info there. I wish I would have read it about 200 rounds ago. I knew NOTHING about reloading when I started. Although I have learned a lot I feel like I have wasted more time and money than it's been worth. It's very frustrating. I'm going on two years now and I sometimes feel like I'm still where I first started. I'm going to give your method a try. I have a couple questions for you. I have a brand new tub of H4831sc still. In your opinion should I stick with it or try the H4350? And second I only have 10 pieces of fire formed brass. Will your method work with brand new brass or should I fire form 10 more pieces first?

Thanks again for all the tips fellas. I appreciate it.
I'd save the 4831 for an unforseen future project. I've been loading for years and when you get that "new" toy it very well may take your leftover powder. I've got partial or full pounds for at least 1/2 dozen powders I don't use on the shelf in addition to enough powder to load for the ten rifles I have. I have to inventory now and again to make sure I have stuff around when I want to stuff brass. Both 4350 powders work well, and I've got both loaded at present.
I like Imr's average accuracy better(many long range shooters used I4350 in 300win rifles in the day), but h4350 is working well in my 25wssm with 120 grain speer bt's. I personally shoot mostly reloader powders, but sometimes the rifle simply wants Hodgdon or Imr.
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