close
Long Range Hunting Online Magazine


Go Back   Long Range Hunting Online Magazine > Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment > Reloading

Reloading Berger Bullets

Reply

Factory ammo powder

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #8  
Unread 09-20-2013, 10:55 AM
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 1,256
Re: Factory ammo powder

lloydsmale,

Absolutely correct, but until they do, the true "factory duplication" powder isn't available to handloaders. When the 7mm STW was introduced many years ago, handloaders quickly found that they couldn't duplicate the performance of factory ammo in this caliber. It wasn't until they cut loose with IMR7828 (which was used in the initial loadings of the STW) that we could actually match factory ammo. Ditto for several other cartridge/powder combinations. I suspect this is precisely what you're seeing with the WSMs and some of the other new short mag families of cases. Give it time, and the real powder may hit the shelves. Until then, you just can't get there from here.
__________________
Kevin Thomas
Lapua USA
Reply With Quote
  •   #9  
    Unread 09-20-2013, 11:03 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: Sedalia, MO
    Posts: 1,256
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    Max Heat,

    No, but they do generally load to a specific set of criteria, and in that sense, it stays pretty uniform. May be entirely different powders involved in different lots of "the same" ammo, but the performance should be very similar.

    When a major loading operation sets out for a run, they have a set of parameters they require the ammunition to stay within. Very specific limits on pressures, on accuracy requirements, velocity, SD and ES, port pressure (in certain cartridges), temp sensitivity for some loadings, etc., but rarely is there a requirement for a specific powder. Lake City's vaunted M118, for example, has been loaded with at least three powders since I've been testing/certifying them; IMR4895, WC-750 and RL-15. Two canister grade powders and one non-canister powder. Yet, the performance and specifications of the M118 ammo remained constant throughout, and all met the performance standards. So yes, it should remain reasonably constant, but no, it may not be "the same" load exactly.
    __________________
    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    Reply With Quote

      #10  
    Unread 09-20-2013, 11:23 AM
    Silver Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2012
    Location: Remington County, PA
    Posts: 385
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    That makes sense. They are the "experts", when it comes to blending different powders - something that the handloader would NEVER be encouraged or advised to try. THEY obviously have all of the big-dollar equipment needed to insure the safety and consistant performance of their ever-changing blends.
    Reply With Quote
      #11  
    Unread 09-20-2013, 02:48 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2009
    Location: Sedalia, MO
    Posts: 1,256
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    Max Heat,

    Actually, it even goes a bit beyond that. If you buy enough powder at a time, there are some makers that will work with the customer to tailor a particular powder to that customer's specific needs. Tweak it a bit. I know that USAMU has a special set of requirements for one of their loads, and they're routinely running 150 FPS+ what most other competitors can manage with off-the-shelf powders. If there was enough demand for such a powder, I'm sure St. Marks would introduce it commercially, but it's worked up around AMU's very demanding requirements, and I have no idea how versatile (or not) it would be in some other cartridges, or with different bullet weights. It's an interesting field, and it's pretty neat to see some of the things that can be accomplished.
    __________________
    Kevin Thomas
    Lapua USA
    Reply With Quote
      #12  
    Unread 09-20-2013, 04:54 PM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: S.E. Michigan
    Posts: 4,120
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    We all know what Lapua stuffs in their brass.......
    __________________
    'It's not about me, it's about we'..........
    Reply With Quote
      #13  
    Unread 09-21-2013, 06:57 AM
    Gold Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2012
    Posts: 987
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    go here http://hodgdon.com/rifle.html and read what it says about powders like superperfomance and leverevelotion. These are the powders they use in factory rounds to get those velocitys and superperformance being a hogdon powder thats owned by the same company as winchester is using it in there short mag rounds. Same goes for re17 and some of the other recent introductions. All of these magical powders are available for the most part if you look around.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post
    lloydsmale,

    Absolutely correct, but until they do, the true "factory duplication" powder isn't available to handloaders. When the 7mm STW was introduced many years ago, handloaders quickly found that they couldn't duplicate the performance of factory ammo in this caliber. It wasn't until they cut loose with IMR7828 (which was used in the initial loadings of the STW) that we could actually match factory ammo. Ditto for several other cartridge/powder combinations. I suspect this is precisely what you're seeing with the WSMs and some of the other new short mag families of cases. Give it time, and the real powder may hit the shelves. Until then, you just can't get there from here.
    Reply With Quote
      #14  
    Unread 09-21-2013, 10:54 AM
    Platinum Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2011
    Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts: 2,450
    Re: Factory ammo powder

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Max Heat View Post
    That makes it sound as if they are trying to make use of whatever powders that they have an excess inventory of,at the time. But that implies that there could be significant lot-to-lot variations in factory ammo charactoristics and performance. Although I seldom use it myself, I was always of the belief that factory ammo was supposed to be very consistant lot-to-lot, year-to-year, and decade-to-decade. Is that NOT true?

    I never said anything about any excess inventory! And NO...thats why a "standard" is set up to blend to and as long as the powders that are available ARE available them yes...factory ammo will stay consistant
    Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Bookmarks

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes



    All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:58 AM.


    Powered by vBulletin ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Content Management Powered by vBadvanced CMPS
    All content ©2010-2015 Long Range Hunting, LLC