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Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

 
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  #15  
Old 07-09-2012, 11:16 AM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

Mike, I just got off the phone with one of the Sinclair techs. He said that the Hornady's bullet-runout adjusting feature works better for benchrest shooters who might want to eliminate runout for the comparatively few reloads they use in matches, but that for someone like me who reloads far more cartridges at one time, eliminating runout on a few hundred cases AFTER the cases had all been reloaded would be a time-waster.

Sinclair suggested that only the first few cases be checked PRIOR to reloading all, say, several hundred cases because it is easier to find out what the cause of the runout is early on, rather than eliminating runout for a large batch one-by-one in the Hornady.
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  #16  
Old 07-09-2012, 11:54 AM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
Thanks for the reply, Joe. It seems that if there were a bullet runout problem that was discovered by the Hornady for one cartridge out of a batch of reloads, that the same amount of runout would be present in the remainder of the cartridges in that batch.

If this is the case, I wouldn't want to have to be faced with altering the runout by having to put all the cartridges in the Hornady to reduce runout.

That being the case, wouldn't it make more sense to check the first few cases for runout, and if there is runout, see what the cause is, rather than reload a few hundred cases, only to find out belatedly via the Hornady that ALL the cartridges suffer from runout?

I know that I may not make sense because I haven't read anything on the actual concentricity gauge procedures, nor have I ever used such an instrument, so I ask questions purely from the standpoint of being a complete novice on the subject of concentricity gauges.
Makes sense to me. I in the very least it will give you a heads up that something is a bit hinkey.

Mikecr thats just the very reason I like the idea of using the Siclair to get a reading then use the Hornady to correct the worst offenders.
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Keep in mind the animals we shoot for food and display are not bullet proof. Contrary to popular belief, they bleed and die just like they did a hundred years ago. Being competent with a given rifle is far more important than impressive ballistics and poor shootability. High velocity misses never put a steak in the freezer.

Joe
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  #17  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:11 PM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

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Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
The Hornady and H&H type neck benders are popular because they show only a small portion of runout, and then fool you into believing you can easily fix it.
The Sinclair(with bearings) shows ALL runout, and your cases are NOT straight until measured so on this v-block type of gauge.

Anyone could try & see this;
Take a case that measures <1thou TIR on a Hornady and drop it on a Sinclair to see that you still have way more runout.
Take a case that measures 1thou or less on a Sinclair and drop it on a Hornady, and it won't even register.

Sinclair sells great tools. But they also sell whatever does.

Mike, I feel like I may be running this thread into the ground, but here's another question: What about the NECO gauge? Does it do anything more and better (add "easier") than the Sinclair? It costs about $50 more, but would it be worth a look? I don't want to buy the Sinclair, then wish I should have bought another better gauge (but not one that costs $600).
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  #18  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:15 PM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

You're asking a fox how many chickens you have..
What Sinclair should be telling you, is that with runout a concern, you're better off determining and fixing the cause of it, rather than BENDING YOUR NECKS on a bunch of ammo.

I'm tellin you disturbing your tension and seating depth to 'fix' runout is a very bad idea.
You're likely trading up something that matters little, for something that matters more.
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  #19  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:21 PM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

The NECO can be used as a V-block, like Sinclair, and uses a better indicator.
I wouldn't assign any credit to it's other 'features' though.
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  #20  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:22 PM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
Mike, I feel like I may be running this thread into the ground, but here's another question: What about the NECO gauge? Does it do anything more and better (add "easier") than the Sinclair? It costs about $50 more, but would it be worth a look? I don't want to buy the Sinclair, then wish I should have bought another better gauge (but not one that costs $600).
I own both the NECO and Hornady and have tested exactly the scenario that Mikecr explained and agree with him completely. The NECO will detect runout when the Hornady indicates zero. You can exacerbate or minimize this with the setup. But, different geometry will lead to different readings.

In that respect, the NECO is more similar to the Sinclair and probably roughly equal in design although I have no way to compare the responsiveness nor backlash of the dial indicator used by Sinclair to that of the NECO.

The main advantage of the NECO as compared to Sinclair is that the design allows for making a few different measurements for which Sinclair will gladly sell you a separate apparatus.

Straighten if you must. But, an ounce of prevention is best here. And, I think others have already pointed out that crooked necks will translate to crooked cartridges.

-- richard
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  #21  
Old 07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
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Re: Excessive bullet run out. How to remedy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
The NECO can be used as a V-block, like Sinclair, and uses a better indicator.
I wouldn't assign any credit to it's other 'features' though.
..perhaps not in the normal course of reloading.

But, it's nice to have the option assuming everything else is truly equal.

-- richard
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