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DPS III vs. Chargemaster 1500

 
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodgrouper View Post
Fourth point, the reason you feel your standard deviations are better with your balance beam doing the measuring is not so much the balance beam is going into the .01 accuracy level but more that your electronic scale is not throwing accurate charges. In other words, you would have more faith in your charges if your electronic scale was better. The standard deviations you mention are good when loaded with your balance beam loads. However, with a Chargemaster, even smaller deviations are possible. And remember, you could have the powder charge in your ammo counted out to the kernel and if the gun doesn't like that load, the sd can be huge still.
That may well be the case. I should compare the rcbs digital scale with the Sartorus scale. They are in different locations however I may carry a measured load over to my office and test it.

Your right about the gun liking or not liking a particular load too. Ive been there and done that. Thats why I have cans of powder all over the shop that I never use LOL

You mentioned smaller deviations. How small can you actually acheive with consistancy? And, what chrono will read low enough to accurately measure them?


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  #9  
Old 02-25-2008, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge View Post
I should compare the rcbs digital scale with the Sartorus scale. They are in different locations however I may carry a measured load over to my office and test it.



You mentioned smaller deviations. How small can you actually acheive with consistancy? And, what chrono will read low enough to accurately measure them?


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If you do the comparison on the ultra sensitive scale, I would love to see your findings. That would be very interesting. You could even do write up for it and post it in the articles section here!

As for the deviations, depending on the gun, I can always get sd's in the single digits loading with the chargemaster with one load or another. It really just depends on the gun. I know from working with the chargemaster for over 3 years now that if the sd's aren't good, it is the gun not liking the load, not inconsistencies in the powder charge itself. Of course, I didn't trust it at first and had to recheck my charge on my 10-10 Ohaus scale for the first 500 or so loads. After that many and no descrepancies, I realized the chargemaster could be trusted and I was just wasting time double checking every load.

I use an Oehler 35 chrono on a 4' rod. It gets down to 2 or 3 feet accuracy on bullets under 4000 fps. It would be even more accurate if I had it on an 8' rod but that would be a pain to transport!
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2008, 12:51 AM
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If I can get the time and more importantly REMEMBER to do it I will have the powdermaster throw lets say 10 charges and then take them to the analytical balance and see how much deviation there was.

So far as the chrono, I have a Pact championship timer/chrono (I was fairly heavily into IDPA at one point a few years ago). It served as my shot timer for draws, target transitions etc and for chrono work too. Info is hard to find but I dont think it does well below ES's of about 10-15fps (in its current 24" configuration). So, im at the bottom end of its ability to measure. It was originally purchased to check that I was making power factor for IDPA, not for rifle work, but it got drafted for that job. Its picky about light conditions too. I have been looking to buy another chrono or perhaps upgrade this one with the IR kit and perhaps make the seperation longer by building another frame for it to take it out a bit. I havent decided on that yet. Changing the frame for the sky screens should be an easy task though and given the equipment I own will probably done if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity.
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:35 PM
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Sludge,
I dont think you are getting the point yet, you are still talking about your powdermaster. it is a POS dinosaur just like my powder pro.
You need to try one of the chargemaster's for a couple of week's to let the reality sink in of just how good they really are.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2008, 08:46 PM
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LOL

No, I dont think you understood the last post. Goodgrouper said...
Quote:
If you do the comparison on the ultra sensitive scale, I would love to see your findings. That would be very interesting.
So, I told him that I would. Nuf said.

Right now im not going to try the chargemaster. I may in the future, but too much is going on right now for me between remodeling a 105 year old house, wife in grad school full time, 9 yr old kid, work, ... Ive got no time for any load development or anything at the moment. When I do, given that the testing on the powdermaster goes poorly, I will no doubt get a chargemaster. And, when I get one, or get an opportunity to get my hands on one for a day or two I will without fail, subject it to a test too.

If you read back to the earlier posts you will see that I havent been trusting the powdermaster anyway. I chose to trust the balance beam over it. And, btw, im going to test that things accuracy too ;)

At any rate, I can still let the powdermaster throw the charge light and use my analytical balance to top off the last tenth of a grain accurately. Im not without a means to throw an accurate charge. The analytical balance is calibrated to 0.0001g or 0.0015gr. So, its capable of being way more picky than I need to be. The balance is at work, but I own the company and I will use it for reloading if or when I choose :p
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2008, 04:30 PM
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Goodgrouper, I did a bit of testing today to satisfy my curiosity.

I did a proper warmup and calibration on both the RCBS and analytical scales. Then I had the Powdermaster throw 10 charges. During the test I used Hodgdon BL-C(2) due to its fine metering characteristics and decided on a charge of 50gr. I performed a tare weight function on the RCBS digital scale before it dispensed the first charge and didnt perform any more during the duration of the test. On the analytical balance, I verified tare weight on it prior to each throw of powder because it could detect fingerprints on the weighing pan and would alter its readings somewhat if i wasnt careful or if any powder residue remained in the pan.

(No) (Indicated on RCBS Digital Scale) (Indicated by the analytical balance)
1- (50.0) (50.035)
2- (50.0) (50.019)
3- (50.0) (50.026)
4- (50.0) (50.052)
5- (50.0) (50.060)
6- (50.1) (50.095)
7- (50.0) (50.038)
8- (49.9) (49.925)
9- (50.1) (50.033)
10-(50.0) (50.024)

The group taken as a whole had a SD of 0.06gr as indicated from the RCBS scale. The SD according to the analytical balance was 0.043gr. ES of 0.170

Now, as you can see some of the loads were not indicated by the dispenser as 50.0gr loads. It either over or under dispensed. So, if I were to discard all loads it said were not 50.0gr loads the Average according to the analytical balance is 50.036gr. The SD according to the analytical balance is then 0.014gr with an ES of 0.040 Thats not as bad as I had expected.

Now, I threw a few to 55.0gr on the balance beam too. Suffice it to say that the balance beam was not as accurate. The Average according to the analytical balance was 54.995gr and the SD was 0.019gr with an ES of 0.046 at the best that I could do when everything went right. Now, the flaw with the little balance beam scale was that the calibration was so easily knocked off. I wasted one whole set of numbers when I bumped it and after 4 or 5 wild samples on the analytical balance, I realized that the scale had been altered. I then had to recalibrate it and begin another test batch. I would not have been able to detect this deviation without the analytical balance there to catch the change. Now, if I was careful, and didnt mess up the calibration, it did well as the above SD indicates. A higher quality balance beam would surely do much better in reguards to holding its calibration than this little one did.

Very enlightening tests none the less. I expected a higher spread from the RCBS digital scale, and I did not expect to find the problem with the balance beam scale. As I said above, the change in that scale wasnt detectable unless you were backing up its measurements with another scale. The chronograph results that I had based my previous assumptons on was on ammo using H-1000. Its a coarse powder and perhaps that is why the balance beam had appeared to throw a more uniform powder. I should repeat the testing with a coarse powder to see if the results hold. Or, perhaps I had a really good day with the balance beam...

I would really like to get my hands on a Chargemaster to see how it performs.

Last edited by Sludge; 02-26-2008 at 05:02 PM. Reason: clarification
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2008, 05:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: North Louisiana
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Cm 1500...

Can't help with the DPS, but can say that my charge master 1500 has been very accurate in the short 3 months I've owned it. I haven't tried any ball powders yet, but with small stick and large stick it has thrown accurate charges every time. I've checked several charges with my 1010 and it's been dead on every time.

I heard of some guys setting it light and trickling the last bit. I just set mine dead on and it's been throwing them dead on the money every time. I only use it when volume loading as I find a beam quick enough if I'm just loading a few different loads for load development.

It will throw a mid 40s weight charge of stick powder in 18-20 seconds from start to finish. The auto mode is nice, empty the pan and when the pan is back in place it throws the next charge automatically.

Nice rig, I'm glad I have one.

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