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DPS III vs. Chargemaster 1500

 
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  #1  
Old 02-24-2008, 10:28 AM
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DPS III vs. Chargemaster 1500

I did a search before I did this and read what was there, but no one compared a DPS III. Any input on which to buy? I don't really care about speed as much as accuracy. I am not a high volume shooter so I would pick the one with better accuracy over the faster one if there was a difference. I read the review over a 6MMBR but the DPS III addressed the negative issues with the DPS I and II according to their adds. Any warrenty issues between the two. Any thoughts or input?
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:14 AM
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I cant speak for the DPS or the Chargemaster. However, I have experience with the older automatic trickler by RCBS. The one thing I found and you can take this or leave it, but I found the automatic trickler to be ok for throwing loads for general shooting. The autos do great at that. However, when trying to push the extreme spreads on my chronograph lower, I found they are limited by the fact that they round to the nearest tenth of a grain and arent accurate enough for my tastes in that reguard. I ended up using my thrower to work on one bench and throw a charge to about a tenth shy of my intended load, then I move the pan over to another bench and top it off by hand with a balance beam scale while the automatic trickler prepares another for me. Having the automatic trickler working on one bench behind me while I fine tune a charge on another bench allows me to quickly spit out higher quality ammo. I can get more uniformity with the balance beam and the chronograph results have shown the difference. Now, as I said before, if its just pistol loads, or plinking ammo, I will just accept the loads the automatic trickler puts out. Its just the long stuff that I get really picky about (maybe too picky at times).

I hope that makes sense. My two cents, your mileage may vary...
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:44 PM
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What automatic tricker are you using Sludge?
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Old 02-24-2008, 04:00 PM
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Its the RCBS Powdermaster. It has the trickler and the scale seperate. You just put the scale beside the dispenser. Fairly similar to the Chargemaster. It was manufactured by Pact and is still sold under their name as far as I know.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge View Post
Its the RCBS Powdermaster. It has the trickler and the scale seperate. You just put the scale beside the dispenser. Fairly similar to the Chargemaster. It was manufactured by Pact and is still sold under their name as far as I know.


The powdermaster and the chargemaster are very different machines and have nothing in common but the RCBS logo. The chargemaster will throw charges quickly and is just as accurate as any beam scale used for reloading. BTW, the balance beam scales are only accurate to .1 grain just like the chargemaster and if you think you are getting your powder charges down more accurately than that, you would have to be using a medical or phamaceutical scale or something that goes to .01 grain and your gun or ammo would never know the difference in .01 grain anyway.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by goodgrouper View Post
The powdermaster and the chargemaster are very different machines and have nothing in common but the RCBS logo. The chargemaster will throw charges quickly and is just as accurate as any beam scale used for reloading. BTW, the balance beam scales are only accurate to .1 grain just like the chargemaster and if you think you are getting your powder charges down more accurately than that, you would have to be using a medical or phamaceutical scale or something that goes to .01 grain and your gun or ammo would never know the difference in .01 grain anyway.
Well, the chargemaster is somewhat different, it spits it out the front instead of the side but is a play off the same theme. I didnt say I owned one. That said, their accuracy is still limited to rounding off of the digital scale to the nearest tenth of a grain. In fact it could have a 47.25gr rounded off to a 47.3 and a 47.34gr rounded off to a 47.3. That rounding off is what I dont like about the digitals. They need to have one more decimal place IMHO but for most folks that would get too pricey. I dont know what beam scale you have but mine CAN differentiate between individual grains of extruded powder where my digital scale cant. As I said I let the powdermaster throw the charges just shy of the intended load for me while I top one off on the beam. I put it on the beam and SLOWLY trickle up one small grain of extruded powder at a time until I have a perfect uniform reading. I can take 20 finished rounds with matched brass, primers, bullets etc and place one on the digital scale. Then tare weight it to that bullet and all 20 will read 0. Nicely matched and the chrono agrees. ES runs in the 13 to 20fps range right against the bottom limit of the chrono. Now, being that I work with the wastewater industry thus the name Sludge, I also have a Sartorius analytical balance that I could get very technical with that is calibrated and accurate to 0.0001g or .0015gr but below the tenth does have diminishing returns. As I stated earlier my Pact chronograph in tests has shown that I can reduce my ES by using the beam. Perhaps im using it differently than you are or maybe I got lucky and have a nice sensitive one. I dont know, but repeated chrono results have shown me that I was on the right track by doing it that way over just taking the thrown amount from the machine with all other variables being equal. I just told what works for me.. it may not work for you.

Im probably too anal for my own good... and most stuff I do probably is just too damn picky and may not make a difference. At long ranges on flesh I just want to take out all the variables I can with the ammo and gun. God knows between my trigger finger and the environment I have enough challenges for a one shot hit without compounding any more varialbes than I absolutely have to.
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sludge View Post
Well, the chargemaster is somewhat different, it spits it out the front instead of the side but is a play off the same theme. I didnt say I owned one. That said, their accuracy is still limited to rounding off of the digital scale to the nearest tenth of a grain. In fact it could have a 47.25gr rounded off to a 47.3 and a 47.34gr rounded off to a 47.3. That rounding off is what I dont like about the digitals. They need to have one more decimal place IMHO but for most folks that would get too pricey. I dont know what beam scale you have but mine CAN differentiate between individual grains of extruded powder where my digital scale cant. As I said I let the powdermaster throw the charges just shy of the intended load for me while I top one off on the beam. I put it on the beam and SLOWLY trickle up one small grain of extruded powder at a time until I have a perfect uniform reading. I can take 20 finished rounds with matched brass, primers, bullets etc and place one on the digital scale. Then tare weight it to that bullet and all 20 will read 0. Nicely matched and the chrono agrees. ES runs in the 13 to 20fps range right against the bottom limit of the chrono. Now, being that I work with the wastewater industry thus the name Sludge, I also have a Sartorius analytical balance that I could get very technical with that is calibrated and accurate to 0.0001g or .0015gr but below the tenth does have diminishing returns. As I stated earlier my Pact chronograph in tests has shown that I can reduce my ES by using the beam. Perhaps im using it differently than you are or maybe I got lucky and have a nice sensitive one. I dont know, but repeated chrono results have shown me that I was on the right track by doing it that way over just taking the thrown amount from the machine with all other variables being equal. I just told what works for me.. it may not work for you.

Im probably too anal for my own good... and most stuff I do probably is just too damn picky and may not make a difference. At long ranges on flesh I just want to take out all the variables I can with the ammo and gun. God knows between my trigger finger and the environment I have enough challenges for a one shot hit without compounding any more varialbes than I absolutely have to.

A couple of things here Sludge. The CHargemaster (as I said earlier) is NOT the powdermaster. I have used the powdermaster and it is a hunk of yakpoop. Several others on here can back that up. The chargemaster on the other hand has many improvements in the circuitry and dispensing and is far superior. Sales of the Chargemaster have probably been 10 to 1 of all the other powder dispensers combined and for good reason. And the chargemaster has different ergonomics of course like you mentioned.

Second, your scale (no matter which one you use) is only going to be as accurate as the rating system and all scales currently made for our purposes are only accurate to .1 grain plus or minus. You can't throw more accurate loads than what your scale will provide beam or electronic.

Third point, there is absolutely no need for the reloading scales we use to go to .01 grain accuracy because the gun and equipment involved in the whole act of shooting would never be able to tell the difference. Harrell's powder measures most BR guys use for competition are rated for .1 grain accuracy plus or minus and many "zero" inch groups are shot and .1 grains means more (comparatively) in a small case like a 6ppc than it is in a large case like a 300 ultra.

Fourth point, the reason you feel your standard deviations are better with your balance beam doing the measuring is not so much the balance beam is going into the .01 accuracy level but more that your electronic scale is not throwing accurate charges. In other words, you would have more faith in your charges if your electronic scale was better. The standard deviations you mention are good when loaded with your balance beam loads. However, with a Chargemaster, even smaller deviations are possible. And remember, you could have the powder charge in your ammo counted out to the kernel and if the gun doesn't like that load, the sd can be huge still.

QUOTE
"At long ranges on flesh I just want to take out all the variables I can with the ammo and gun."

Agreed. That is important and it should be a goal of all long range hunters.


ANd for giggles, here is a group I shot in competition last summer that was loaded on a chargemaster at the range:
__________________
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Range it
Click it
Pull it
Dump it

If it's not far, it's boring.

Last edited by goodgrouper; 02-24-2008 at 11:22 PM.
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