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Reloading Techniques For Reloading


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Do I need to neck turn?

 
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  #36  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:13 AM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

I know my math also. It could be stated as 1 millionth. Does it really matter if it's 1 millionth or 1 ten millionth or 1 hundred millionth or 1 billionth. Time to lighten up the atmosphere, is my primary point. I don't know if Bart or Mike is most correct, or completely correct, but I'm pretty sure the interpretation of this number and that distance of separation - down to this level of minutia - is no longer relevant to the subject or concepts being debated.
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  #37  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:36 AM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
I know my math also. It could be stated as 1 millionth. Does it really matter if it's 1 millionth or 1 ten millionth or 1 hundred millionth or 1 billionth. Time to lighten up the atmosphere, is my primary point. I don't know if Bart or Mike is most correct, or completely correct, but I'm pretty sure the interpretation of this number and that distance of separation - down to this level of minutia - is no longer relevant to the subject or concepts being debated.
Good for you. Consider your back patted. I apologize for ruffling your feathers.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:42 AM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
There's some physics issues I don't quite understand
It's not a physics issue, or even a conceptual issue. It's your bias towards an incorrect notion combined with contempt for evidence within your reach.
I should say about this "One test equals a thousand expert opinions", and I have provided a test earlier for which I know the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
why a bullet would remain fixed in place while the case neck expands (whatever amount) around it as pressure builds up inside the case. For every 100 pounds of pressure per square inch in the case, there's almost 7.5 pounds of force against a seated 30 caliber bullet's back end. How can it stay fixed in place while the case neck expands away from it?
Atleast consider that a bullet stays in place BECAUSE it is gripped by a neck, and only for a damn short period of time. There is timing to it, to pressure rise per area, much like a WOODEN stick jammed into a muzzle can lead to a STEEL barrel blowing up(which I'm sure was denied until laughably undeniable). One test...

While pressure is applied to the back of bullets, it is also applied to a much larger case area. The case is expanding first, way ahead of any bullet forced out of a gripping neck theory. Not much at first, but it don't take much. The case expands moreso where it is thinner than thicker, peeling it open nearer the bullet than webs, and eventually the case chamber seals first at necks, then shoulder body, and last near webs. When there is so little resistance in bullet grip that pressure applied to bullet base area overcomes static inertia, the bullet moves.

You could keep a neck from expanding by fitting it to this condition, aka bearing into a donut, or just zero neck clearance, and yes, the bullet will eventually overcome normal friction and move. This, provided the gun doesn't come apart, and believe me this will affect pressure beyond the notions you're considering as 'normal'. Put another way, if our loads relied on overcoming normal bullet/neck interference friction(normal seating forces) for bullet release, nothing in reloading, or modern gun build, would be as it is today.

Bottom line: polished necks with higher seating forces shoot exactly the same as fouled necks with way lower seating forces. One test..
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:52 AM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySes23 View Post
Good for you. Consider your back patted. I apologize for ruffling your feathers.
You apologized needlessly. My feathers are fine. Now where were we? What does .0000000000000000000000001 mean? Nothing with respect to whether or not the OP should neck turn.
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  #40  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:06 PM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorwath View Post
you apologized needlessly. My feathers are fine. Now where were we? What does .0000000000000000000000001 mean? Nothing with respect to whether or not the op should neck turn.
1e-25 or if you prefer, one septillionth. Is that what you were asking or were you wanting a different answer?

Last edited by TracySes23; 06-21-2013 at 12:30 PM. Reason: incomplete response
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  #41  
Old 06-21-2013, 12:50 PM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

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Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
Bottom line: polished necks with higher seating forces shoot exactly the same as fouled necks with way lower seating forces. One test..
Entirely possible. At the same "muzzle velocity" is what I think you're referring to.

I would like to know the bullet release force for each. I've not done a lot of testing, but the same load recipie and barrel gets more muzzle velocity with higher release force numbers on the bullets.

Last edited by Bart B; 06-21-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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  #42  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:39 PM
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Re: Do I need to neck turn?

Tension(actual gripping force), which is springback x area, that is overcome by a load to allow normal bullet release, directly affects MV & tune.
Pull force does not, and you cannot tune a load with it.

A chamber will spike overpressure if the bullet is not fully released, fast enough, from the neck tension gripping it. Rely on a bullet to be forced from an unexpanded neck -from a couple benches away!

Anyway, this was a total hijack of OP's thread, and I should have stayed out of it.
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