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Digital Scale and Accuracy

 
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  #50  
Old 09-05-2012, 07:18 PM
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Location: Lake Tahoe, Calif.
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

Ditto to TracySec & Boomtube....my sentiments exactly! Though I will admit that in my dreams I have a digital dumpster that throws charges +/- .05gr in 3 seconds directly into the case....
And then there's that hot girl on the beach in a tiny bikini smiling at me seductively over the top of her shades, throwing back her hair and then doing that little yawn stretch thing....Ohh, I just woke up and darn, I'm not 27 anymore!
OK, so I pick up my new 7mm RM tonight from my FFL...yippie!
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  #51  
Old 09-05-2012, 10:19 PM
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shootin4fun View Post
Ditto to TracySec & Boomtube....my sentiments exactly! Though I will admit that in my dreams I have a digital dumpster that throws charges +/- .05gr in 3 seconds directly into the case....
And then there's that hot girl on the beach in a tiny bikini smiling at me seductively over the top of her shades, throwing back her hair and then doing that little yawn stretch thing....Ohh, I just woke up and darn, I'm not 27 anymore!
OK, so I pick up my new 7mm RM tonight from my FFL...yippie!
Shootin4fun,

You're not 27 anymore! I'm not 67 anymore. :-)
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  #52  
Old 09-06-2012, 05:20 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 940
Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

i just love these threads! always revert to a "mine is bigger than your" discussion
when all the guy wants is an answer to a simple question.
the simple answer is 'use whatever the hell works for you !

scale people are generally so used to 'em they will never change, and digital folks are the same way. and, who gives a s--- about a 1/10th. gr anyway, it don't make no diff to 99.99999% of the shooters in the real world.
and my mothers cousin's next door neighbor's best grade school buddy say's so !
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  #53  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:53 AM
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Location: Mountians of SW NC, near Asheville
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

"You're not 27 anymore! I'm not 67 anymore. "

Ah, to be a mere 67 again! Oh well, getting old is better than the alternative. So far as I know.

MTBULLET, bottom line you're right; use what ever floats your boat. Thing is, the guy who asks 'digital or manual' has no point of reference, his boat is still outta the water, and that's why the question gets asked.
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  #54  
Old 09-06-2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

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Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
Topgun: "You just made my point when you stated that you had Lab scales (many thousands of dollars) for your primary standard! That sort of equates to what boomtube and I are referring to "

Exactly so.

Gary, you present an eloquent defense of digitals. You mention digitals where you work that can detect floor viberations from a distance and then talk about Pact powder scales as if even they are capabile of such sensitivity. You may not mean to connect the dots that way -and I hope you know better - but that's the image you will leave if it's not corrected. I will; guys, that's like apples vs. chicken fingers, meaning there ain't NO reloading scale going to have anything like that kind of sensitivity!

* never said a Pact was the best scale out there, but I did point out the dollar and cents value ($248 verses $350). Now I'll be first to tell you that I've used a small percentage of the digital scales out there right now, but will also tell you that I just never had a problem that mounted to much of anything with any of them. But also never really had a problem with the beam scales I've used. They all worked well.

You mention the daily care and calibration checks for the accuracy/sensitivity your digitals require at your work without mentioning that no reloader has the tools to make checks tighter than .1 gr and no way to correct any real error or scale failure if it occurs; that matters. Yes, labs and some repair shops do have highly sensitive digital scales, so do drug stores and meat markets, etc, but they all have routine checks by well trained certification technicians with some costly test instruments to maintain them. And so do the ones you use at work but you fail to mention that and that's really not honest with our readers! I know about those checks require because I once did it. But I no longer have access to the calibration/repair tools so I don't use digitals and I don'recommend the finicky things to any reloader. Reloading digitals are indeed quirky; they suffer from hysterisis, are sensitive to ambient temperature and line power, they are not as long lasting and are in no way better for reloading than a beam powder scale.

* I'm just kinda locked into the quality check mode. Been that way for a long long time. I even go so far as to cull powder charges I throw with the Harrell for a check (usually every fifth charge). I've also kinda got a system that I set up my equipment (I also did the samething with beam scales if it matters much). Guess that's just me, but it also works well for me.

Fact is, even the best digital scales simply don't bring anything specific (but trouble) to the loading bench; not speed, not accuracy, not ease of use, not reliability. My Ohaus/Lyman M5 beam scale's test weight reads exactly the same today as it did in '65 and I have no doubt it will last that much longer without fail. My scale is not unique among beam scales but NOTHING electronic lasts that long and everyone knows it!

*I wrote a post awhile about checking the calibration weights supplied with scales. I checked them on more than one scale, and the results were not great.

Now, digital powder dumpsters are a whole different thing from simple scales. I'm practiced with my old manual powder measure, a very good powder trickler and my beam scales, I can easily match the speed of my friend who has an RCBS system but I KNOW exactly what my powder charges are. My young friend just knows what his digital readout says and that digital readout only needs to be off ONCE. That sudden change can happen and that's why I was well paid and had good job security for a long time! I do have a digital I use to weight cases and bullets but not powder, no one's going to be hurt if a bullet or case is different from what I thought but ... powder? Naw, I insist on knowing what my charges are, all the time, every time.

* I pretty much wrote in the past that I have no serious preference in the digital measurers. I know what ones I didn't prefer (not just my own opinion as well), and also have said what I liked. The Pact and the RCBS units worked for me, and the other didn't.

So, IMHO, the value of a digital dumpster depends entirely on the user; if he has a well arranged work flow path and good technique the manual worker will be as fast and accurate as an automated digital system at its best. If the user is slow, if his tools are poorly place or if he's inattentive to details he will likely be better served with something other than the old tools. ??
In your last couple of paragraphs you have pretty much mirrored my own thoughts regarding the dispensors. I don't use mine much, because I find it a bother to setup. But I also trust it. Still if I were planing on dumping two hundred charges of 4350, I'd drag it out. I rarely drop more than thirty charges at onetime.

Now one last thought about the one or two kernel issues. I suggest that we take our favorite load, and load up five rounds with two extra kernels in them. See the difference? I can't.
gary
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  #55  
Old 09-07-2012, 12:46 PM
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

"Now one last thought about the one or two kernel issues. I suggest that we take our favorite load, and load up five rounds with two extra kernels in them. See the difference? I can't."

Now, on THAT point we fully agree!

I have to laff at the serious posts I read about some people thinking .1 gr simply isn's sufficent powder accuracy for true believers like themselves. Some even go to the extreme of buying scales costing in the thousands to meet their personal 'standards' as if accurecy/consistancy to .000001 gr. matters. Goodness, the difference between individual primers and selected cases probably have a greater effect than .1 gr. of powder and I KNOW a ten degree ambient temperature change will affect the burn rate and pressure more than one kernel or five of powder.
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  #56  
Old 09-08-2012, 09:12 AM
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Re: Digital Scale and Accuracy

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomtube View Post
"Now one last thought about the one or two kernel issues. I suggest that we take our favorite load, and load up five rounds with two extra kernels in them. See the difference? I can't."

Now, on THAT point we fully agree!

I have to laff at the serious posts I read about some people thinking .1 gr simply isn's sufficent powder accuracy for true believers like themselves. Some even go to the extreme of buying scales costing in the thousands to meet their personal 'standards' as if accurecy/consistancy to .000001 gr. matters. Goodness, the difference between individual primers and selected cases probably have a greater effect than .1 gr. of powder and I KNOW a ten degree ambient temperature change will affect the burn rate and pressure more than one kernel or five of powder.
Actually when I was speaking of 1 or 2 kernels accuracy, I really meant sensitivity and consistency. When we get very close to the best load,
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