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Which die should I use?

 
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2006, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,114
Re: Which die should I use?

[ QUOTE ]
When you guys talk about "bumping" the shoulder back, what does this mean and how do you do this?

[/ QUOTE ]Virtually all full-length sizing dies will set the fired case shoulder back from its fired position when the die's screwed far enough down into the press. Most die maker's instructions say to set the die to touch the shell holder with the ram all the way to the top then lock it in place. If the die's set too high, the fired case shoulder won't be pushed or "bumped" back far enough and such sized cases may be hard or impossible to chamber.

Best accuracy with full length sized cases typically happens when the case shoulder is set back .002- to .003-inches from its fired position. It take a shoulder headspace gage to measure this. Belted cases can have their shoulder set back twice that much as they should headspace on the belt, not the shoulder, for best accuracy.

When a case shoulder gage is used, the die can be set then locked in place for fired cases in a particular rifle chamber. A different chamber for the same cartridge may well have different shoulder headspace so the die would have to be reset.
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  #16  
Old 07-12-2006, 08:56 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,114
Re: Which die should I use?

[ QUOTE ]
When you guys talk about "bumping" the shoulder back, what does this mean and how do you do this?

[/ QUOTE ]Virtually all full-length sizing dies will set the fired case shoulder back from its fired position when the die's screwed far enough down into the press. Most die maker's instructions say to set the die to touch the shell holder with the ram all the way to the top then lock it in place. If the die's set too high, the fired case shoulder won't be pushed or "bumped" back far enough and such sized cases may be hard or impossible to chamber. Too often, folks set the die too far down causing excessive headspace with bottleneck cases therefore getting poor accuracy and short case life; they go to neck-only resizing which helps accuracy but if they backed the die out a bit things would be better.

Best accuracy with full length sized cases typically happens when the case shoulder is set back .002- to .003-inches from its fired position. It take a shoulder headspace gage to measure this. Belted cases can have their shoulder set back twice that much as they should headspace on the belt, not the shoulder, for best accuracy.

When a case shoulder gage is used, the die can be set then locked in place for fired cases in a particular rifle chamber. A different chamber for the same cartridge may well have different shoulder headspace so the die would have to be reset.

Some neck only sizing dies have a shoulder so the fired case neck can be "bumped" back a bit. Even neck only fired cases grow a bit in shoulder headspace and they need to be "bumped" once in a while. I've tried them for a couple of cartridges but didn't get nearly as good of accuracy as full-length sized cases with proper shoulder set back.
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  #17  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:10 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 878
Re: Which die should I use?

[ QUOTE ]
Do you need a lubricant on the body die and if so will the Imperial Sizing wax work?

[/ QUOTE ]
Imperial will work just fine. Really... about anything will work just fine. idon't know why it is... but these body dies that redding makes are super smooth.
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2006, 09:22 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 1,014
Re: Which die should I use?

[ QUOTE ]
It take a shoulder headspace gage to measure this

[/ QUOTE ]

Or an apropriate size pistol case.
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2006, 01:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mississippi Delta
Posts: 161
Re: Which die should I use?

I'm another big proponent of the Lee collet neck die in conjunction with the Redding body die and Forster benchrest seater. My Redding S type bushing dies have been collecting dust since I tried my first collet die.

To date, most of my reloading has involved belted magnums and I don't recall ever having a problem with a case bulge in front of the belt requiring the die that IT sells. Maybe it's a problem for some folks, but I haven't experienced it.
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  #20  
Old 07-12-2006, 07:05 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Casselberry, FL
Posts: 190
Re: Which die should I use?

Delta Hunter,

The top of our Belted Magnum Collet resizing Die is used as a case width gauge. If your cases will fit in all the way to the belt - you don't need to use it.

However, if you have reloaded your cases twice or more they definitely won't fit in the gauge on our die. Then you do need to use our collet die. This gauge also confirms that you're cases will chamber properly.

Measure your cases above the belt, and you'll see what I mean. If you don't use our Belted Magnum Collet Resizing Die . . . . sooner or later you'll find that your belted cases will stick in your chamber.

I tried a several prototype dies and found that the collet design is far superior to any type of "cut down" version. That method just pushes the brass to the rear - causing it to bunch up and increase the diameter anyway. It would have been nice if it was that simple.

Remember, top accuracy requires a "consistently" perfect fit in your chamber, and it's not good to close your bolt with a mallet.

- Innovative
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  #21  
Old 07-13-2006, 12:19 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 878
Re: Which die should I use?

[ QUOTE ]
if you have reloaded your cases twice or more they definitely won't fit in the gauge on our die.

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I understanding this to mean that a twice reloaded ( which by definition would mean no more than 3 firings) cartridge will swell to the point that unless its sized in your die, it will jam in my chamber? ive read this line about a dozen times now, and I can't figure how else it was meant. When I first saw your die, I thought that it was a pretty cool solution to a problem that could arise. I tried to purchase it a couple of times... only to find that it was out of production. After having fired many thousands of rounds without it, and having reloaded many hundreds of cases many times more than twice... I realize that it is a pretty cool solution to a problem that <u> MIGHT </u> arise. This tool is a neat idea, it really is, but suggesting that its use is mandatory... or that failing to use it after as few as 2 firings will result in a jammed case, is almost funny. On rare brass, in a oversized chamber, using brass without a thich enough web to support the belt... I could see that it would be useful or even mandatory... and the collet die is certanly the best way to do it. No doubt you were thinking when you put the idea together!
However: Your statement above is inaccurate to say the least. I fear that this statement will confuse a great many shooters getting into reloading who don't know any better.

Ill take one more run at this before im done just for clarity's sake... as ive been misunderstood before... This is a cool tool, and ill probably have one one of these days, but I think its utility has been overrated. It does what it does to the cases it needs done to... no doubt! Im just not sure that what it does needs done to the cases most shooters are using. That said, congrats on getting everything worked out, and being back in production! Ive also notticed that midway and others have picked it up as a standard item. Something else worth congratulations!
I would be curious to know what diameter you cut in the top of your die to use as a gauge. .513 is saami spec for most of these cartridges... .515? .520? Shooters thinking about purchasing your die may also be interested in this dimension, as it would allow them to determine its suitability to their particular rifle.
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