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Competition Dies?

 
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2005, 01:30 PM
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Re: Competition Dies?

7mmmag man, now that was the detail I was looking for. The rifle you were shooting. Right off we know that the chamber will be SAAMI spec (no surprise here). Will also have a short throat (at least the two I have tested did) which will ensure a chance at good groups. Barrel quality is usually excellent per factory standards.

Let's start off with the rifle. Did you properly bed that action, support the barrel nut and free float the rest? Is there any chance the barrel can hit the stock?

What type of trigger do you have? Older heavy creepy POS or Accutrigger or aftermarket? Changing to a light crisp trigger will do wonders for your groups.

What bullets are you using? Don't expect most hunting bullets to shoot. They simply aren't made that good. Only ones to consider are Hornady SST/Interbond, Nosler BT and accubond. Then there are the match bullets like AMax, Sierra, Bergers, Wildcats, etc. Garbage in garbage out.

You may not be able to stabilize the bullets heavier then 168gr. Savages come with 9 1/2 twist in their RM's. I am using 162gr SST/AMax.

I am using a set of Lee collet dies and seater. I don't FL size because I want that case AS BIG AS possible to fill that rather generous chamber and control headspace off the shoulder not the belt. When the case grows so that it will not chamber easily (6 to 8 reloads with sane pressures), the case gets tossed. Unless you can move that shoulder back ever so slightly, you will have case separation around that belt in a couple of firings. Why many go to a beltless case for match shooting. Just one less pain in the butt to worry about.

Right now I am working up a load using H870 and 162gr SST moly coated and Fed 215M primers. At 180yds, I hope to confirm sub 1" 3rd groups. Just have the light hunting barrel so anymore rds and this thing gets toasty. Besides, I should only need one right???

If I end up with say consistent 3/4" group, then this will be a rifle that can shoot accurately enough for hunting out to 850yds.

Check to make sure your actions screws, scope bases, rings all stay tight. Mine are backing out all the time. I am trying to be less agressive in my bolt tightening. Not happy. will return to gorilla torque [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

There should be no issue with bullet length and still fitting in the mag. Just take your time while shooting. That barrel will heat up very quickly and could walk. Also, recoil becomes bothersome so take plenty of rest, even if you don't feel tired.

I put a very nice muzzle brake on mine and recoil is so light. Noise is harsh though.

Also, make sure you have a scope that can handle the recoil. If you are using a lesser product, wouldn't surprise me if parallax is an issue or its just moving zero. Same goes for rings.

Think consistent accuracy not the smallest group. You don't have a match rifle so don't expect that level of performance. There are so many things that could affect your accuracy that comp dies are the least of your problems. Just measure your ammo and if within 3 thou of runout, work on your load/shooting.

If you really want teeny tiny groups, install a match barrel.

Jerry
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  #37  
Old 04-29-2005, 02:05 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 180
Re: Competition Dies?

Jerry,
The action is not beeded except for pilar bedding from the factory. The barrel is COMPLETELY free floated and the barrel nut is supported. I have the accutrigger set at under 2 pounds. I am shooting 150 gr Nosler BT's. Plan on trying SMK's and Berger VLD's pretty soon.

I have a Leupold 6.5-20 scope with leupold rings and bases. I am planning to go to a 20moa base pretty soon. All in all the scope is solid. And you said a Muzzle Break...No thanks. I don't like the noise and at 13-15 pounds my rifle has a very mild recoil to it.

And yes I have consistent groups between 3/4 and 1 inch at 100 yards but at two hundread I have about 3-4 inch groups. So I was thinking that maybe my reloading has something to do with it. But then agian it may just be the load and I need to find another good one. THANKS FOR THE ADVISE

PS under .003 (in my dreams) I am getting .005-.010 (just a guess but it is definitely not straight at all (I can see obvious wobble while rolling it on glass))
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I shoot 1/4 inch groups at a 1000 yards. That is...till my second shot.
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  #38  
Old 04-29-2005, 03:05 PM
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Re: Competition Dies?

First thing, bed that action. If the action moves just one thou from shot to shot, do the math at 200yds. Relying on action screws is not the best idea. I have the factory plastic stock so bedding is more problematic but I will get to it shortly.

If you are getting that much runout, you will need one or two new dies. How is the brass after firing? Does it wobble too? If so, you have a bum barrel and there is nothing you can do to solve it.

Try a collet neck die. You can pick them up for $16 at Natchezz. That alone should reduce your runout tremendously (assuming chamber is not trash).

Small groups at 100yds with larger groups at longer ranges indicate stringing of some kind. This assumes that the rifle is consistently accurate and ammo is straight.

Get that ammo under control, action bedded and eliminate any outside problems. A wobbly rest can destroy groups at longer ranges. So can improper or inconsistent rifle position and form during recoil.

What load are you using?

Jerry
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  #39  
Old 04-29-2005, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 180
Re: Competition Dies?

I am shooting 62 gr of IMR 4831 pushing 150 gr. Nosler BT's. Backed by CCI 250 large rifle magnum primerd. Getting between 3000 and 3100 fps. I don't have a crono so that is a guestimate from the reloading manuals I have.
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I shoot 1/4 inch groups at a 1000 yards. That is...till my second shot.
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  #40  
Old 04-29-2005, 05:55 PM
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Re: Competition Dies?

Let's assume you get the runout issue addressed. Consider a slower powder that fills the case better. With that much 4831, there is a lot of room and that can affect ignition.

I find case filling as near to 100% does help with lowering ES and reducing stringing at LR.

But first things first, get that ammo straight.

Jerry
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  #41  
Old 05-02-2005, 07:29 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boise
Posts: 466
Re: Competition Dies?

GG, How do you determine the correct bushing size?
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