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Reloading Berger Bullets


Competition Dies?

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Unread 04-28-2005, 07:27 AM
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Re: Competition Dies?

Good brass is definetly important, but can still be oversized (work hardened over time) and have TOO MUCH grip with standard dies and that can be adjusted with the comp dies.

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I was having problems with the neck shaving off a LITTLE bit of the copper jacket when I was seating the bullets. Could this be a problem like you have stated that the brass could have too much grip? Even after I started using the deburring tool on the inside of the neck. It helped a little bit but didn't solve the problem. It is not much but enough to hurt the accuracy down range, and one things for sure it isn't helping my accuracy.
I shoot 1/4 inch groups at a 1000 yards. That is...till my second shot.
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Unread 04-28-2005, 08:03 AM
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Re: Competition Dies?

I am new to reloading. How do you measure your runout?
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Unread 04-28-2005, 08:29 AM
ds ds is offline
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Re: Competition Dies?


runout can be measured with a concentricty gauge. Several types are listed in the Sinclair catalog. Sinclairs own is good and NECO should be better. www.sinclairintl.com

A cheaper way to see if you think runout looks bad or not is to roll your rounds over a flat piece of glass. You will notice if the ammo is wonky or not.

As to how much run out is significant, I guess depends on the type of shooting you are doing, BR or hunting, type of bullet eg vld`s are probably a bit more sensitive to it as they like to be seated into the lands so giving them a straight start can help. For me .003" runout is fine. Also the cheaper dial indicator seems fine to me.

Hope it helps,

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Unread 04-28-2005, 08:36 AM
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Re: Competition Dies?


I have to agree with Goodgrouper on his replies to you.

There is no comparision between a standard FL sizing die and a properly set up, adjusted and maintained Comp Neck sizing die from Redding.

Notice that I said "Properly set up, adjusted and maintained."

This is critical to top performance. I suspect that most of the problems with bushing neck sizing dies are from S type dies and not the Comp die. The S die from Redding is nothing more then a standard neck sizing die that has been machined to accept an interchangable sizing bushing. This is great for controling neck tension but does not decrease neck run out in any way as the case body is not supported and held in alignment as the neck is sized.

With a Comp sizer, the sliding sleeve positively holds the case in alignment with the bushing so neck run outs are extremely low.

Now if you do not clean the die properly before using you will get higher run outs. The bushing chamber needs to be clean and dry, no oil, no brass chips, nothing. If there is anything in there you will see increased neck run outs.

But when set up properly, they produce neck runs outs in the 0.001" or less range with extreme consistancy. With turned necks you will also get bullet run outs that are generally equal to this roughly 98% of the time.

While you may be happy with 0.003" bullet run outs there are very few serious extreme range shooters that will allow anything over 0.0015" in run out for their serious shooting. I would also be curious to see what percentage of your ammo actually made true match quality specs, 0.0015" run out or less, I suspect less then 50% would meet the grade with Hornady dies.

Now if your shooting to the 1/4 mile range, then yes this level of ammo can work. It still will not allow the rifle to perform up to its full portential if the rifle is a quality rifle but you will hit your mark most of the time.

For shooting out to 800 yards you will start seeing problems for sure. At 1000 yards and beyond, good luck!!

Consistancy is a result of perfection, in the ammo, the rifle, and the shooter. Your results will be limited by your weakest link in the system and if you think standard dies are "good enough", that for sure is a very week link in your system.

The question was posed if these dies will take you to that next level of performance and the answer is YES. They would also take you to that next level my friend.

Not flaming you at all, just letting you know that there is performance out there that you have not tapped into yet.

Good Shooting!!

Kirby Allen(50)
Kirby Allen(50)

Allen Precision Shooting
Home of the Allen Magnum, Allen Xpress and Allen Tactical Wildcats and the Painkiller Muzzle brakes.

Farther, Faster and Flatter then ever before.

Web Page: www.apsrifles.com

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Unread 04-28-2005, 08:59 AM
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Re: Competition Dies?

Goodgrouper hits the nail right on the head and i think it is everyones duty to load the best quality ammunition be it for hunting or target.
I've said it once before and i will say it again, use the best dies, best components, benchrest case prep and you will end up with the finest ammunition, and for me, complete confidence in my handloads.
If you dont possess the necessary skills or you cant be bothered, get one of your buddies who practices these processes to do it.
If like me he enjoys it, he will be only to glad to do it for you. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I've gone off on a bit of a tangent here so getting back i use only Redding competition dies and apart from Wilson hand dies i think they are the best 7/8"x14 dies you can get. I have loaded many thousands of rounds in 222, 22-250, 243 and 300WSM,it gives great satisfaction to know that i have done this to best of my abillity,using top quality dies.

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Unread 04-28-2005, 09:27 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Central PA
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Re: Competition Dies?

I have redding comp dies and wilson seaters. Still prefer the wilson seaters for seating the most precisely.

no need to incorporate the threads and press linkage when you can seat with a wilson.

Not to mention a wilson seater costs about 30$ [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

stainless micrometer seater for some rounds is a little over 70$ from brunos

BTW -- you dont NEED an arbor press to use a wilcon seater [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Check it Out!!--> Shoot the Smack The Smiley Match...and help AmericanSnipers.org
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Unread 04-28-2005, 09:37 AM
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Location: Burns,Wy
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Re: Competition Dies?


What is the proper maintanence and setup to fully minimize runout?
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