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Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

 
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:14 PM
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Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

Another curiosity poll...........

With rimless bottleneck fired cases, neck only versus full length sized, what's the difference in how they fit the chamber and align the bullet with the bore when the primer goes off and fires the round?
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

Quote:
what's the difference in how they fit the chamber
Well the least sized of fireformed brass will certainly 'fit the chamber' with higher precision.

Quote:
and align the bullet with the bore when the primer goes off and fires the round?
Nobody walking this planet knows for sure.

As far as anecdotal evidence, IMO, there is none credible.
Both perfect fitting and sloppy have performed well enough amidst the abstracts of trial & error in the shooting community. And I've seen no comprehensive testing to implicate valid conclusions here.
That is, nobody who can has proved that perfect fitting is better or worse than sloppy fitting.

Also, there are still reloading pros and cons to every action/approach.
just part of the abstracts, and of many things left for us to learn..
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:43 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

Neck sized brass more closely fits the chamber dimensions when used in the same good, concentric chamber it was last fired in.

I have no way to measure how well either one centers and don't really care except as a curiosity.

I've yet to see proof posistive that one method consistently outperforms the other for precision shooting.

Either method done right will outperform us humans. And, that' increasingly true the farther you shoot.

JMHO
-- richard
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

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Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
Neck sized brass more closely fits the chamber dimensions when used in the same good, concentric chamber it was last fired in.

I have no way to measure how well either one centers and don't really care except as a curiosity.

I've yet to see proof posistive that one method consistently outperforms the other for precision shooting.

Either method done right will outperform us humans. And, that' increasingly true the farther you shoot.

JMHO
-- richard
Go to any BR match for any "Proof Positive" you may need that neck sized/fired cases are more accurate and centered to the bore. Show me one of them that is shooting FL sized cases. The physics apply to any rifle.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

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Originally Posted by reelamin View Post
Go to any BR match for any "Proof Positive" you may need that neck sized/fired cases are more accurate and centered to the bore. Show me one of them that is shooting FL sized cases. The physics apply to any rifle.
BIG MYTH.

Go and you will find that in fact in LR most are FL sizing and polls on BR central showed most are FL sizing in SR also. Harrel brothers make one of the best FL dies for the PPC and different ones to fit most of the chambers.

Two of the very best SR shooters around (Tony Boyer and Mike Ratigan) have both in the last two years published very detailed books about how to do it. They both have very strong opinions that FL sizing is the way to go and is required unless you are shooting extremely light loads, which almost no one does.

We have even had one of our "NS only" gurus go there and try to educate the unlearned masses with no success as expected.

I will say that in the LR game, more than one top shooter has found out that the best concentricity and uniform neck tension is coming from a hybrid technique. They FL size first, use neck expanders (K&M or Sinclair) to expand the complete neck back to nominal caliber and then use a NS only die to neck down to the desired dimension.

For several years it was a very quiet technique but recently has become known more widely.
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:43 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

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Originally Posted by BountyHunter View Post
I will say that in the LR game, more than one top shooter has found out that the best concentricity and uniform neck tension is coming from a hybrid technique. They FL size first, use neck expanders (K&M or Sinclair) to expand the complete neck back to nominal caliber and then use a NS only die to neck down to the desired dimension.

For several years it was a very quiet technique but recently has become known more widely.
the Hoover family uses this technique and they are VERY successful in the 1000 yard BR game. here is a link to accurateshooter.com 6.5-284s of the Hoover Clan within AccurateShooter.com
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:07 PM
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Re: Chambered Round Alignment to Bore; Neck Sized vs Full Length Sized

Quote:
Originally Posted by reelamin View Post
Go to any BR match for any "Proof Positive" you may need that neck sized/fired cases are more accurate and centered to the bore. Show me one of them that is shooting FL sized cases. The physics apply to any rifle.
Assuming you are referring to group size, and further assuming that BR shooters are the most precise shooters of all, I'm still not willing to stipulate that smaller groups imply one method is more centered in the chamber. How did your BR friends measure centering in the chamber?

Likewise, the popularity of one vs the other for any given shooting discipline isn't proof positive of centering or group size.

There are many pros and cons to both methods.

Nonetheless, it was a seasoned benchrest shooter that got me to change over to FL sizing for my 6br. So, I'm not even certain that your ascertion that most BR shooters prefer to neck size is necessarily correct.

I do however agree that "physics apply to any rifle." I would add that physics applies to bullets as well. I'm just not sure what it has to do with centering in the chamber.

Then again, I'm not sure exactly how much runout it takes to reduce accuracy; nor what that little ejector plunger off to the side of the boltface does to help center a round precisely; nor if we're talking about once fired/neck sized vs 5 times fired/neck sized and almost unable to close the bolt. Is the case and/or the bullet getting more centered each firing? Do your groups just keep getting tighter? When you finally decide to bump your shoulder, does your precision shooting suddenly fall apart?

-- richard
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