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Be careful, myths about pressure signs.

 
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
...

You were well under max.
Right?

Actually, Quickload lists 63gr as just over 64k psi for the OAL I'm using. So I am now up at max with no signs, where before I was showing signs below max.

AJ
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  #9  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by HRstretch View Post
AJ,

Was the sticky bolt a lift problem or extraction (pulling back) problem? My STW has a problem of being able to pull the bolt back. The lift is fine. From what you described, if my bolt face was not square this might put pressure on the floating head and cause it to jamb. Does this sound correct to you?

On mine, the lift was the problem, no problem on pulling back. I think my bolt head out of square was causing a tightness as I was lifting, because part of the cartridge had moved back causing a bind on the cartridge. Now that its square, there can be no bind.

AJ
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  #10  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ballistic64 View Post
Does anyone make an oversized firing pin for the Savages?
I don't think so, I called Savage Shooters Supply and talked to the gunsmith and he said no.

AJ
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  #11  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:37 PM
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Fred at SSS also made a post about another contributing factor to Savage hard bolt lift is the way Savage cuts the lug ramps in the reciever.

"Another geometry problem is that the lead-in ramps and the primary extraction are not synchronized, but are actually in conflict with one another. When we true an action, it consists of much more than just machining a few mating surfaces. First the lead-in angles (the ramps that lead into the lug seats) are re-cut to a true helical cam. The factory cuts are made with an end-mill, and are not helical. A helical cam is like a spiral staircase, and I have developed special tooling to precisely cut the lead-in angles to engage the whole width of the bolt lugs."
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  #12  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Peacock View Post
Actually, Quickload lists 63gr as just over 64k psi for the OAL I'm using. So I am now up at max with no signs, where before I was showing signs below max.

AJ
It seems like you're making an argument that we cannot detect over pressure loads.. But you're failing to provide any REAL basis for this.

You had a bolt problem. NOT A PRESSURE ISSUE.
Your primers never flattened. YOU NEVER REACHED HIGH PRESSURES.
QuickLoad lists 64.5Kpsi as max safe load. YOU HAVEN'T EXCEEDED THIS PRESSURE.
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikecr View Post
It seems like you're making an argument that we cannot detect over pressure loads.. But you're failing to provide any REAL basis for this.

You had a bolt problem. NOT A PRESSURE ISSUE.
Your primers never flattened. YOU NEVER REACHED HIGH PRESSURES.
QuickLoad lists 64.5Kpsi as max safe load. YOU HAVEN'T EXCEEDED THIS PRESSURE.

I can only conclude from your argument that common pressure signs may not be caused by pressure at all.
Which is good information, but taking it further would call for a basis.
Afterall, reloaders all over the world(for the past century) are loading up to pressure signs, and then backing off.

There is just nothing to panic about.
Thats right, the things we've all been told to watch out for, can show up without pressure issues. And according to the reference I posted, don't correlate well with actual over pressure situations. So they might not be showing up when you actually have an overpressure situation.

The entire reason I posted this, wasn't to panic anyone. I was seeing signs that are typically believed to be high pressure signs in a load that shouldn't show pressure signs. I did some research and found the causes and thought I'd share. I also posted a link to an article that disputes the entire idea of watching the brass as a primary pressure indicator.

AJ
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ Peacock View Post
Thats right, the things we've all been told to watch out for, can show up without pressure issues. And according to the reference I posted, don't correlate well with actual over pressure situations. So they might not be showing up when you actually have an overpressure situation.

The entire reason I posted this, wasn't to panic anyone. I was seeing signs that are typically believed to be high pressure signs in a load that shouldn't show pressure signs. I did some research and found the causes and thought I'd share. I also posted a link to an article that disputes the entire idea of watching the brass as a primary pressure indicator.

AJ
I think the above highlighted area is critical!

Using the signs that were long thought to be primary pressure indicators, like flattened primers and swollen brass, is a poor real world practice.

Those same signs can be seen in other situations.

To top that off, sometimes those signs ARE NOT seen and the rifle is in an overpressure situation.

I guess the real lesson here is that "it ain't always what it seems, and what it seems ain't always what it is!"

BE CAREFUL when working up loads!!

Bill
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