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Bushing Dies?

 
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2011, 08:48 AM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

"I don't use collet dies."

I don't use bushing dies, not any more. Too fussy, too costly, don't work any better than Lee's collet's, IMHO.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:18 PM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

I've had excellent results with both the Lee Collet dies and Redding Type-S bushing dies.

Neither one works particularly well if they aren't set correctly.

The Lee seater is pretty good. But, it's no micrometer either.

I ruined a bunch of cases and/or had mediocre results before I got the Lee Collet dies set correctly. Once I got it down, they are pretty good and the price is right.

Redding comp dies are expensive. But, it's nominal when you start doing a lot of shooting.

-- richard
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2011, 09:04 PM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

x3 on the Lee Collets and my answer to your question about improving accuracy is yes, the Lee Collet will improve the accuracy components of neck concentricity and consistancy of bullet grip.

I have 2 sets of Redding Competition bushing neck sizers, one in 30-06 and one in 338RUM. I no longer use the bushing die in 30-06 since I got a Lee Collet for it. They don't make a Lee Collet for the 338RUM but after sizing 50 cases the other night with the bushing die, I made my mind up to finally sent a couple of cases to Lee to have them make me a Lee Collet in that caliber. The reason is that out of 50 cases there were 5 of them that had significantly less bullet grip than the other 45. Now these were outside neck turned to fit a tight chamber



and obviously the turner took a little more off on these 5 than the others. I do not have a smaller bushing but it would be a PITA to keep changing the bushing for variances.

I discovered this variance in bullet grip with the bushing dies by gauging with a set of pin gauges




When gauging the ID's of the necks there was some variance. After sizing with any of my Lee Collets there is NO detectable variation in ID. That is because of the way the Lee Collet works. All the variations in neck thickness are pushed to the outside of the neck. With a bushing die all variations in neck thickness are pushed to the inside of the neck unless you leave the expander ball in (and why do that, might as well buy a cheaper FL die).

And would someone please tell me how you can squeeze neck brass onto a non-compressible steel mandrel and "adjust them for neck tension". The only variance should come from differences in work hardening and subsequent variations in springback between cases. I suppose you could only put 10# of weight on the press handle when using the Lee Collet rather than the recommended 25# and that might result in less bullet grip. Don't know how that would help since the Lee Collets put a minimum bullet grip on anyway.

YMMV
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  #11  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:45 AM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

I only neck size with an arbor press and Wilson dies. If I'm neck sizing, will also turn my necks for a 80% cleanup or better. One thing I like about using a bushing is that I can control neck tension with a bushing change. And lately I've been doing some experimentation with neck tension.

Now I've got a virgin .223 Lee Collet die, and it wil not size the necks I use in my .223 Remington. These necks are either .243" or .244" depending on which lot. I wish the die would go down to about .240". I also did the same check with a handfull of 22-250 brass in a collet die. The necks were shaved to .244", and the die would not resize the necks. Has anybody here had this problem?
gary
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:59 AM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickymissfit View Post
I only neck size with an arbor press and Wilson dies. If I'm neck sizing, will also turn my necks for a 80% cleanup or better. One thing I like about using a bushing is that I can control neck tension with a bushing change. And lately I've been doing some experimentation with neck tension.

Now I've got a virgin .223 Lee Collet die, and it wil not size the necks I use in my .223 Remington. These necks are either .243" or .244" depending on which lot. I wish the die would go down to about .240". I also did the same check with a handfull of 22-250 brass in a collet die. The necks were shaved to .244", and the die would not resize the necks. Has anybody here had this problem?
gary
I could be wrong. But, I think that may have been one of the problems I had with some of my brass in the collet dies some time back. Basically, I neck turn the bare minimum in order to even ot about 85% of the neck wall thickness. But, I couldn't get the necks to size to .002" tension without crushing the shoulders.

That's a complete non-issue for me with bushing dies.
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2011, 02:50 PM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

I had exactly the same experience with a Lee .223 collet die. That is why I only use bushing dies now.
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:43 PM
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Re: Bushing Dies?

I'm sure with either that bad results mean we're doing something wrong. Afterall, somebody get's each approach to work..

I'm curious as to how a collet forces thickness variance outward. I mean on the surface it looks to me that the collet fingers are pushing(forcing brass) inward.
Now with bushing sizing(Wilson) I follow-up with mandrel expansion(Sinclair). This forces variance outward for me.

Also someone mentioned changing bushings for tension adjustment. This doesn't work. Tension = Springback, applied to area.
To adjust tension with a bushing die(to a pretty fine resolution), you can adjust the LENGTH of neck sizing.
Not sure that any of that could be done with collets.

Last edited by Mikecr; 03-09-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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