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Bullet runout what is the max?

 
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  #15  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:40 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
Then, we agree to disagree on two points because bending case necks to reduce TIR is also a waste of time in my experience.
Back when I was wearing out 7.62 NATO Garand barrels shooting matches, I often checked M118 match ammo for bullet runout. That arsenal match ammo often had rounds in some lots that ran as much as 7 to 8 thousandths runout. Using a .338" bullet puller collet to hold live round's case neck indexed to the high point, I would bend them back straight pushing on the case head. 'Twas easy to get runout down under 2 thousandts. 600 yard accuracy went from about 1.5 MOA down to about .6 MOA. Did the same thing with government issued .30-.338 Win. Mag. ammo from the marksmanship unit. Well worth the effort to do so in my opinion.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:55 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
[...]Note that how the cartridge is supported makes a big difference in the amount of runout there is. Especially when there's no such thing as a perfectly round case body. Rimless bottleneck cases, when fired, center in the chamber's front end at its shoulder, not anywhere on the body. Any out of round condition of the body right behind the shoulder will be reflected in bullet runout if that point's one support location. It's better to support the front of the cartridge about mid point at its shoulder. It matters little where the back of the cartridge is supported.[...]
Perhaps Hornady has improved the quality of their guages since I bought mine? Mine has measurable slop. But, I've heard similar comments from others and have checked several at stores and at DSC. All the ones I've handled had slop in them.

Charlie's may be better than mine and it appears that his reads in tenths. Or, perhaps a typo?

Nonetheless, it all goes back to Bart's point. i.e. you'll get different readings depending on how you hold the cartridge and where you measure

The Hornady method supporting the cartrdge between the case head and bullet tip is flawed IMHO.

-- richard
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  #17  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:14 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
Back when I was wearing out 7.62 NATO Garand barrels shooting matches, I often checked M118 match ammo for bullet runout. That arsenal match ammo often had rounds in some lots that ran as much as 7 to 8 thousandths runout. Using a .338" bullet puller collet to hold live round's case neck indexed to the high point, I would bend them back straight pushing on the case head. 'Twas easy to get runout down under 2 thousandts. 600 yard accuracy went from about 1.5 MOA down to about .6 MOA. Did the same thing with government issued .30-.338 Win. Mag. ammo from the marksmanship unit. Well worth the effort to do so in my opinion.
Bart - A feller's gotta do what's necessary with the tools at his disposal.

I bought the Hornady for the sole purpose of straightening ammo back before I got a Forester Coax and an arbor press. I never recall anything 8-10 thou TIR. If I had anything like that it would've gone straight to the oil buck. So, I can't speak to that. But, bending from .003-.004 down to .001 or less was a waste of time in my experience as it did not statistically alter my results.

I hope the competition this weekend is spending their efforts bending case necks while I make mine straight right from the start.

-- richard
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  #18  
Old 04-17-2012, 03:52 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
Bart - A feller's gotta do what's necessary with the tools at his disposal.

I bought the Hornady for the sole purpose of straightening ammo back before I got a Forester Coax and an arbor press. I never recall anything 8-10 thou TIR. If I had anything like that it would've gone straight to the oil buck. So, I can't speak to that. But, bending from .003-.004 down to .001 or less was a waste of time in my experience as it did not statistically alter my results.

I hope the competition this weekend is spending their efforts bending case necks while I make mine straight right from the start.

-- richard
First of all, I agree that the most important item is to produce .00015 run reloads and that is my standard. With Redding comp dies and Redding T-7 press is where I get the best results.

The point was miss on moving bullets, This was done to test the results of excessive run out.

Charlie
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  #19  
Old 04-17-2012, 04:19 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by dieseldoc View Post
First of all, I agree that the most important item is to produce .00015 run reloads and that is my standard.
1.5 ten-thousandths runout? That's about 1/7th of one-thousandths of an inch.

How much do your groups open up if bullet runout's 2 to 3 ten-thousandths or .00020 to .00030 inch?

If you and your hardware shoot well enough to do that, you've got the most accurate rifle, ammo and shooter combination on this planet.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-2012, 11:15 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by Bart B View Post
If you and your hardware shoot well enough to do that, you've got the most accurate rifle, ammo and shooter combination on this planet.
Change the above to:
Quote:
If you and your hardware shoot well enough to easily measure that, .........
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  #21  
Old 04-19-2012, 09:15 AM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

could someone please explain to me what "runout" means.

Thanks
Jerry
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