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Bullet runout what is the max?

 
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  #8  
Old 04-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by Kaboom View Post
Thanks guys lots of good food for thought. That kinda confirmed my thought on seating in the lands. I understand it wouldn't cure the problem but might be less sensitive. I guess I should have also given more info on my load and process. bushing neck size to .338, then full lenght bushing size to .333 (no expander ball on either) seated with Forester noncrimp BR seater to 2.98 COL. 43.5 of Varget 210M primers Federal match brass neck turned to .013 wall.
Barnes 175 match burners . Then check for runout on sinclair guage. I weight sort all brass & bullets. If anything throws a flag up here let me know, Thanks
I'm perhaps not be the best to comment. But, .013 seems like a heavy cut for Lapua brass. .015 would clean mine up nicely. I haven't measured Federal lately.

If you're having to step down from ~.341 to .338 then .333, you may be working your brass more than necessary. I assume the two step sizing process is intended to help minimize runout?

You may benefit from less turning, thicker brass, more frequent annealing, or a tighter chamber neck.

Many feel that weight sorting brass is a distant second to measuring case volume. My limited experience is that there is little correlation between the two. But, I haven't concluded if either is worthwhile or which is better. So, I'm going to sort by volume for now.

How do you like the Match Burners? Are they all copper? Do they foul much with long strings? I've had good results with the Berger 175 OTM. But, still too early to say for sure.

...take all that with a grain of salt. Perhaps someone with more competition experience will comment.

Regardless, your actual results should tell you how you're doing.

-- Richard
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2012, 11:07 AM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

The federal brass i started with had a .014-.015 neck wall. It was free and I'm just starting out so decided to make the best out of that. It's a stock chamber and fired brass measured .344. I'm basicly trying my hand with a stock gun with a jewel trigger & aftermarket stock, to see if I like the sport before I get a gun built and learn a little in the proccess. The Barnes shoot well in my gun 1:11 twist 1.5 @ 300. I did find that they need sorted as out of 200 rounds they were between 174.3-175.8. Most were 174.8-175.2, was a little concerned as being target bullets I thought they would be closer than that. Had maybe 25 that weren't in the 4.8-5.2 range. Haven't had any fouling yet but have only shot strings of 44-66.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

Run out does effect the performance of the shot that is out pass the 400 yard range,. Mine for my 6mmbr 105 gr Bergers have to be .0015 or less to shoot sub moa at 500 plus yards. With my 338edge run out have to be .002 or less to effective shoot past 600 plus yards with 300 gr Berger's.
My seating is at .010 off the lands for both rifles. Only after using Redding comp dies have I been able to keep the run out under control.

Interesting thing I did was to use my Hornady concentricity gauge and adjust the run out to .003-004-005 and .006.

The results were , more the run out the loss of MOA on the target with everything being the same, power and charge, bullet and primer. Also the greater of run out the spread larger and did have a flyer every so offen
For those that want to shoot under long range then I would don't worry about run out.

charlie
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  #11  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by dieseldoc View Post
Run out does effect the performance of the shot that is out pass the 400 yard range,. Mine for my 6mmbr 105 gr Bergers have to be .0015 or less to shoot sub moa at 500 plus yards. With my 338edge run out have to be .002 or less to effective shoot past 600 plus yards with 300 gr Berger's.
My seating is at .010 off the lands for both rifles. Only after using Redding comp dies have I been able to keep the run out under control.

Interesting thing I did was to use my Hornady concentricity gauge and adjust the run out to .003-004-005 and .006.

The results were , more the run out the loss of MOA on the target with everything being the same, power and charge, bullet and primer. Also the greater of run out the spread larger and did have a flyer every so offen
For those that want to shoot under long range then I would don't worry about run out.

charlie
I would bet that whatever your Hornady concentricity gauge registers is about half of your true TIR.

i.e. .0015" is probably .003" TIR or greater when measure with a NECO or Sinclair

I have the NECO and Hornady. And, that's been my experience.

-- richard
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:33 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

I think 30 caliber ammo with no more than 3 thousandths runout on the bullet tip is good enough as long as bullet jump to rifling is no more than a thousandth or so. Having tested ammo with such limits, some with full length sized and others with brand spankin' new unprepped cases, 1/2 MOA through 1000 yards is easy.

Note that how the cartridge is supported makes a big difference in the amount of runout there is. Especially when there's no such thing as a perfectly round case body. Rimless bottleneck cases, when fired, center in the chamber's front end at its shoulder, not anywhere on the body. Any out of round condition of the body right behind the shoulder will be reflected in bullet runout if that point's one support location. It's better to support the front of the cartridge about mid point at its shoulder. It matters little where the back of the cartridge is supported.

Note that smaller caliber in shorter cases can have about half the runout as larger caliber longer cases and both will have their bullets' axis at the same angle off the bore axis. The actual runout numbers are affected by the distance between the cartridge's resting points and the dial indicator's position on the bullet. It's easy for two different types of runout gages' setups to have a given round's numbers' twice as much on one compared to the other, which makes direct comparisons difficult.
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  #13  
Old 04-17-2012, 01:54 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by rscott5028 View Post
I would bet that whatever your Hornady concentricity gauge registers is about half of your true TIR.

i.e. .0015" is probably .003" TIR or greater when measure with a NECO or Sinclair

I have the NECO and Hornady. And, that's been my experience.

-- richard
Richard:
Cann't agree on gauges, as I have also Sinclair and it will be same as or not more than .0001 differance. Reason I use Horandy is to move a bullet if necessary.
Charlie
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  #14  
Old 04-17-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: Bullet runout what is the max?

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Originally Posted by dieseldoc View Post
Richard:
Cann't agree on gauges, as I have also Sinclair and it will be same as or not more than .0001 differance. Reason I use Horandy is to move a bullet if necessary.
Charlie
Then, we agree to disagree on two points because bending case necks to reduce TIR is also a waste of time in my experience.

But, I think people should stick with what works for them.

respectfully,
-- richard
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