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Brass troubles

 
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  #8  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:11 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

Quote:
Originally Posted by larrywillis View Post
woods .....

(after pushing the case shoulder too far back when resizing). Firing the case blows it back to fill your chamber, and that can easily rip your case in half.

- Innovative
Actually, no. I always monitor the gap between the case shoulder and chamber shoulder and resize for a partial crush fit by pushing the shoulder back .0005" to .001". In this particular case it was probably due to the excessive space between the new case shoulder and the chamber shoulder (not really headspace in a belted case) of .026" and the thinness of the Norma brass. That would have caused more thinning than usual on the initial firing, but no way to alleviate that other than forming a false shoulder or purchasing a hydraulic form die.

This was discussed in length on another forum Case head Separation - Topic Powered by eve community and the consensus was that is was gas coming out of the case head separation and going forward. The pressure would have escaped in the early stage from the separation and created a path to the front.

But this is all supposition unless someone knows of a scientifically conducted experiment.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2008, 05:32 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

woods ........

After looking at your link, it appears that other shooters are also experiencing case dents caused by gas escaping during case separation. Those are usually unrelated symptoms, but it's easy to understand how case dents can also form during case separation.

It just takes a little attention to detail to make handloads exactly correct, and avoid all those accidents. Shooters need to be aware that when handloading belted cases, you need to always headspace on the shoulder - not on the belt.

- Innovative
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  #10  
Old 11-23-2008, 06:59 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

Yes, that's correct. Always headspace on the shoulder but you have to get there first. Unfortunately, most if not all the brass manufacturers put twice as much space between their new brass shoulders and most chambers.

There is one other method which might alleviate case stretch at the web and that is seating the initial seating of the bullet well into the lands to keep the firing pin from pushing the case forward. That is what I do now but I don't have any definitive proof it actually accomplishes anything.

Anyway, guess we're hijacking this thread.

BTW, since you are an entrepeneur of repute in reloading gear, why don't you pick up the slack that Hornady is leaving with a hydraulic form die. It wouldn't necessarily have to be custom made for a specific chamber, just have it push the shoulder out and the reloader could push it back where he wanted. If you use that I should get free dies for life from you, agreed?
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Last edited by woods; 11-23-2008 at 07:02 PM.
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  #11  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:01 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

the original post doesn't, at least to my observation, have any case head separation or cracking problem. Weatherby's have extremely long throats. a problem that can occur with a long throat is the bullet bearing surface will release from the neck before it engages into the rifling. this alows the pressure to get behind the case instead of staying inside of it. i'm betting the bearing surface length of the all copper E-tip is longer than the interbond. long enough to engage in the rifling before it releases from the case keeping the pressure where it's supposed to be. the Hornady is probably a little shorter and is allowing the pressure to get behind the case causing the dents.
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  #12  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:32 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

"Actually, even though both symptoms occurred for you at the same time . . . . they are totally unrelated. "

Yep.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2008, 07:50 AM
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Re: Brass troubles

Getting back to the original post . . . .

There was no case separation. It was just mentioned by a shooter that considered associating case separation to this symptom. A short bullet in the long throated Weatherby rifle is a very good theory.

However, I have this pisture on my website that shows a 300 Wby, a 300 Win Mag, and a 300 Win Mag case that was fired in a 300 Wby rifle by mistake. There were no case dents there. The shooter didn't examine his fired cases until he fired 3 or 4 rounds, and none of those cases had dents either. Surely this situation had a rather long jump to the rifling. (By the way, don't try to duplicate this shooters mistake!)



Do I still believe that the cause is irratic powder detonation? . . . . yep.

- Innovative
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2008, 05:52 PM
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Re: Brass troubles

it's not a theory, it's a fact that happens with long throats. not every combination will produce dents.

maybe the original poster would see if his bullets are in the rifling before they exit the case. would be very informative if we knew in this situation.

this was just discussed a couple of weeks ago on here.
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