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Best coyote bullet for .22-250

 
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2011, 04:23 PM
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

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Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
Tricky, thanks for those tidbits. I have always liked V-Max bullets in my .222 and .20 VarTarg, and use either V-Max or Noslers in those rifles...mostly for ground squirrels. I have seen no real difference in accuracy and usually purchase which bullet is on sale. I have about 400 rounds loaded with the 55-grain Noslers for the .22-250, however, and would like to use them up, even though it might take a while. I loaded 1,000 rounds of them about 13 years ago when I didn't know better.

I think the twist is 1:14, but I would have to get the rifle out of the safe in the garage to check. The rifle shoots very accurately with the present loads and as long as the BTs are doing the job, I'll just leave things the way they are. I brought up the question of which might be a better bullet because I had nothing to compare the BTs with.
Savages either come in 1:12 or 1:9 twist. The rest are 1:14 twist. The slower twist requires a shorter bullet, with a lower S/G factor. The 60 grain partition may be all you need as it has a lower number than the Vmax or BT. Plus it should be a little more effective. I shoot Vmaxes in my .223 at 3274 fps, they will drop a 30lb. coyote in his tracks under 300 yards. The BT's will not stablize well in the 1:14 twist barrel, but do work in a 1:12 twist. Now a days I seldom use my 22-250's on coyotes because they simply blow right thru the torso, but have been working on some reduced loads a little bit. The best so far is still the Sierra #1365 bullets at about 3300 fps. This same bullet prints in the mid twos at 3550 fps, but groups seemed to open up to the mid fours (I think I'm getting a velocity variation from the air gap in the cases), and right now I'm looking at a couple new loadings using AA3100 and AA2700. I'm looking a large load densities as opposed to huge velocity gains hopping to see tighter groups and an honest and consistent 450 yards range. If this won't work. I'll rebarrel one to 6mm Remington or 6AI (actually 6AI short seems more sensable)
gary
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2011, 10:38 PM
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

Gary, it is very interesting what you say about barrel twist. My rifle was built by Darrell Holland, using a Hart barrel hooked up to a blueprinted Remington 40X action I purchased in 1996 from Walt Berger's brother. The stock is from McMillan in northern Phoenix. I had the parts shipped to Holland, who then put everything together. It was my original idea to use the rifle for both ground squirrels and coyotes. It became fairly readily apparent that the rifle was too much for ground squirrels, but fine for animals the size of badgers, rock chucks, coyotes, and such.

The rifle is a single-shot, but it has made me concentrate on getting my ranges correct, knowing what wind adjustments to make, and generally staying focussed on not missing shots, not being seen, smelled, and so forth. Having been brought up as a bench-rest shooter, I guess I just don't know any other way, although an AR-15 setup is intriguing. Unfortunately, those types of "assault rifles" are not legal in my home state of California.....or at least I don't know how to get around the law. I could purchase one in Arizona, but I am so used to using what I have now that it might be money wasted.

I'll check to see what the twist is. If it is 1:12, I could choose some of the bullets you have suggested. I had loaded 1,000 rounds, using 33 grains of H4895 to push the 55-grain Noslers. As I mentioned, I didn't know better, being a new reloader at the time. There has been minimal chamber erosion, and the accuracy is almost as good as when the gun was new. When using it for ground squirrels, I was always aware of excessive barrel heat and cleaned the barrel every 20 shots, so maybe that had something to do with accuracy retention. Of course, the Hart barrel had something to do with it in my opinion.

Barry
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:21 AM
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
Gary, it is very interesting what you say about barrel twist. My rifle was built by Darrell Holland, using a Hart barrel hooked up to a blueprinted Remington 40X action I purchased in 1996 from Walt Berger's brother. The stock is from McMillan in northern Phoenix. I had the parts shipped to Holland, who then put everything together. It was my original idea to use the rifle for both ground squirrels and coyotes. It became fairly readily apparent that the rifle was too much for ground squirrels, but fine for animals the size of badgers, rock chucks, coyotes, and such.

The rifle is a single-shot, but it has made me concentrate on getting my ranges correct, knowing what wind adjustments to make, and generally staying focussed on not missing shots, not being seen, smelled, and so forth. Having been brought up as a bench-rest shooter, I guess I just don't know any other way, although an AR-15 setup is intriguing. Unfortunately, those types of "assault rifles" are not legal in my home state of California.....or at least I don't know how to get around the law. I could purchase one in Arizona, but I am so used to using what I have now that it might be money wasted.

I'll check to see what the twist is. If it is 1:12, I could choose some of the bullets you have suggested. I had loaded 1,000 rounds, using 33 grains of H4895 to push the 55-grain Noslers. As I mentioned, I didn't know better, being a new reloader at the time. There has been minimal chamber erosion, and the accuracy is almost as good as when the gun was new. When using it for ground squirrels, I was always aware of excessive barrel heat and cleaned the barrel every 20 shots, so maybe that had something to do with accuracy retention. Of course, the Hart barrel had something to do with it in my opinion.

Barry
I don't know if you picked up on the part where I stated that I was in the camp that felt that the gyroscopic effect was more important than anything else. I chased the spin envelope for years, and results were fair, but also never got over the top. Walt said that he felt it took 179K rpm to stabalize a VLD bullet on impact, and the idea worked fairly well in my eyes, but never produced those bug hole groups I so much sought after. Yet shortly after that statement it was also discovered that a bullet with a .0001 displacement in it's C/G would also be about .093" out of the place of aim. But even more critcle was the fact that the faster you spun the bullet the further this displacement was down range. (this was about the time I decided it was time to start all over.) After a few conversations with the Fairland bunch I soon learned that I was operating on another planet, and the bullet shape and correct rifeling was far more important. Later I learned from some folks that make bullets about a couple of formulas they work with, and how to use them. (keep in mind I'm still a novice with this concept). I now know that over stabalization is just as bad as understabalization when it comes to group size. But even then they all operate in a window that seems always to be there. Most benchrest shooters now are using these formulas that came from the bullet makers in the first place. But I also have noticed that many folks operate with a different set of numbers, but use the same bullets. (I think this is to further confuse my old brain)

Now back to the 53 grain bullet a bit. Someone said it has a B/C of .290, and the diameter is .223 (or .224 as that's not all that important). I get a 1.30 number with a .223 diameter. That's just barely in the 1:12 envelope, but not good enough for a 1:14 twist. But that won't always work. Most guys use a guide number (I prefer the term factor), and will multiply the 1.30 with their own set number. I like .80, but may move it up to .85 or even .87. These results show a 1:10 twist rate to be ideal. And I do believe that's why there has been some success with 1:9 twist barrels as the twist is about perfect. In otherwords a bullet that was a perfect design for a Savage .223 using a 1:9 twist rate. So I then did some calculations with the generic Sierra #1365 bullet. It's well known to print very tight groups in a 1:12 twist barrel. I made some measurments and plugged in the formula, and Bingo the numbers match the barrel twist perfectly. So now I'm at least moving in the right direction (I hope I am!). This leads me into the next paragraph (I know it's long)

I go out to the garage and bring in four tubs of custom built 6mm and .223 bullets. Each tub is a different bullet, and these bullets have won a lot of matches in the midwest. I got these for doing some machine work for a well known bullet maker who may be gone to meet his maker. He told me that they were for 1:14 twist barrels (all eight tubs were), and were made off his custom built carbide swedging dies. I made measurments and the numbers were near perfect for a 1:14 twist barrel with each set (the 6mm's were 68 and 70 grains and the 22's were 50 and 53 grains), and maybe a 1:14.5 would have been perfect. I'll be doing some experimenting this spring with this new database, and will try to keep us posted on my findings. But for sure I've learned that the twist rate is much more important than the velocity of the bullets
gary
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:29 PM
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

It seems to be well-known in the .22 rimfire circles that a slower bullet (i.e., one that is below the speed of sound) is more accurate than those that have been jacked up for maximum velocity. Does this have any relevance to the amount of spin you have been researching?
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2011, 02:48 PM
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
It seems to be well-known in the .22 rimfire circles that a slower bullet (i.e., one that is below the speed of sound) is more accurate than those that have been jacked up for maximum velocity. Does this have any relevance to the amount of spin you have been researching?
I think this falls in line with some of Bill Calfee's thoughts. He is big on harmonics.
gary
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2011, 03:09 PM
436 436 is offline
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Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

Goofycat,
Tipping over a few yote's over the years and using a .22-250 more than once to do it with; and if your twist in the 1-9" to 1-12" range..... I found Berger 60gr match varmint to be very good. Early on I also shot a lot of the Sierra 60gr varmint with very good results. But the one that really made it happen both in my .223 and .22-250 was Sierra's 65gr SPBT this bullet is a hammer on dog's at any range..
good luck
436
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2011, 08:40 PM
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Posts: 53
Re: Best coyote bullet for .22-250

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofycat View Post
It seems to be well-known in the .22 rimfire circles that a slower bullet (i.e., one that is below the speed of sound) is more accurate than those that have been jacked up for maximum velocity. Does this have any relevance to the amount of spin you have been researching?
I think that has more to do with the bullet destabilizing when it crosses the sound barrier, not the weight.
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