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Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

 
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  #22  
Old 02-21-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

Quote:
Originally Posted by nchunter182 View Post
I'm going to throw this out there for consideration. I ran across this article that deals with sizing belted cases and how to avoid excessive case stretch. May not help with the bulge you are seeing but will go a long ways in increasing case life and preventing case head separation.
Belted Case Blues.
This article makes perfect sense because it is EXACTLY what you do in forming a wildcat round. I would add that you could also skip loading a bullet at this point and use the shotgun powder/cream of wheat approach which will get you really close. The shoulder may be slightly rounded but the headspacing will still be correct. This saves you wasting bullets and going to the range......Rich
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

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Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
This article makes perfect sense because it is EXACTLY what you do in forming a wildcat round. I would add that you could also skip loading a bullet at this point and use the shotgun powder/cream of wheat approach which will get you really close. The shoulder may be slightly rounded but the headspacing will still be correct. This saves you wasting bullets and going to the range......Rich
Why is it so dang frightening to seat a bullet to jam into the lands? That's ridiculous.
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  #24  
Old 02-26-2012, 10:07 PM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

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Originally Posted by brentc View Post
Why is it so dang frightening to seat a bullet to jam into the lands? That's ridiculous.
It isn't frightening. I do it all the time. I was just giving another good option if you didn't want to use bullets to fireform.........Rich
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2012, 03:57 PM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

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Originally Posted by elkaholic View Post
It isn't frightening. I do it all the time. I was just giving another good option if you didn't want to use bullets to fireform.........Rich
I understand your point. It wasn't a knock on you. The final comments in the article just leave me questioning the author.
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  #26  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:27 AM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

i agree with the last few writers here. always headspace on the shoulder for case life (it's going to do that anyway). i ususally get 10 rounds or so with remington and winchester and federal gets me closer to 15 reloads per case. i would love rws but federal is pretty darn good. make sure that you get ALL of the lube off the case and chamber and dont lube your barrel and stand it up on it's butt as that can allow lube to get into the chamber as well. you dont have to size it all the way down to the belt. you cant do that anyway (take a cross section with a saw and you will see why). fancy dies and all that are a waste (been there done that). i use simple bonanza/redding/rcbs with match mircometer seater and get less than 1/4" groups all day. if it is bulging i would suspect the barrel/pressure combo. resizing overly bulging brass can be dangerous. so even if you do manage to get some die down to the belt and resize the bulge, i wouldnt trust it w/o checking the thickness. all my cases that start doing that is so thin that they ususally separate in 1-2 firings.
i have a ruger that has the tightest headspace for a 300 mag i and all of my friends have ever seen. it shaves some of the belt off of just about any case and consequently is very hard to chamber at times but it is still to minimum factory specs. that should tell you how much tolerance is allowed in the belted headspace idea. even though it actually does head space on the belt (as almost none of the belted magnums do), it still actually headspaces on the shoulder unless you get a really tight one like i got and that isnt fun to go thru all the brass to find the thinner belts. i have seen this with just a bad barrel too. anyway, good shooting and happy trails.
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  #27  
Old 02-28-2012, 03:19 AM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtownBcat View Post
ok so I have one more question. ok no promises there will only be one...

If fire forming these cases was going to solve this problem, why are my cases that have been fired(the other 20%) not showing an improvement in the bulge area? Not being a smart A, just trying to figure out how a light charge is going to affect/effect the brass differently than a "normal" load...

and here are the current powders I have. If one of these will work I can get started tonight if not I will have to make a trip in the AM....

R22
IMR 4350
benchmark
H4831
varget
bl-c(2)
Sorry for the late reply.
The bulge will not improve by fireforming the brass, but it will give you positive headspace, instead of the current negative headspace you have on your brass.
The reason you use a light charge is so that the case isn't stretched in the belt area, a light charge allows the entire case to move in the chamber when max pressure is reached, blowing the shoulder forward without the rear of the case being stretched to the bolt face. I have used this method for many years, and believe me, it works just as I state here. NO CASE STRETCHING OR BULGES OCCUR!
This will give you a new starting point for that brass lot.

A normal pressure load causes the case walls to grip the chamber tightly, not allowing any case movement, and due to headspace, the case walls just ahead of the web, the solid portion of the case, stretches backwards until firm contact is made with the bolt face, this is what is causing the bulging in your rifle cases.

Technically, a belted case headspacing on the belt is correct in all aspects, but chamber dimensions in the shoulder to belt measurement are not held to a tight tolerance, neither are case head to shoulder measurements, this can compound, making things even worse.

Of all the powders you list, only Benchmark would be suitable with light bullets, you really need to use a fast pistol/shotgun powder with pumpkin or potato to do the job correctly.

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  #28  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:53 AM
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Re: Belted Magnum questions for you guys..

amen to magnummaniac and elkaholic. nice to see someone who knows headspacing.
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