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Reloading Techniques For Reloading


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Beams or Digital?

 
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2009, 03:13 PM
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Re: Beams or Digital?

"If anyone were going to continually run "HOT" loads then I would advise buying a highly expensive lab scale and pay to have it calibrated every month by a professional company."

Not necessary. My 1010 is accurate to .1 gr, all the time, every time. That's more than sufficent accuracy for reloading.


"If you don't have it calibrated by a professional than your beam scale is no more accurate than a digital scale. "

Not so. The 1010 has a standard test weight (mine is 260.9 gr.) and anyone can purchase a set of test weights for a modest price. All I need do is set my poise weights at the correct places, set the standard on the pan and it quickly settles exactly on the mark, just as it has since day one. Electonics drift but mechanicals have ONE SLOW MOVING PART that is ONLY driven by gravity and that does not drift.

I fully agree that absolute accuracy is NOT required for reloading but absolute repeatability IS. Electronics are rarely long term repeatable, not precisely so anyway. Those tiny components change as they age, especially in the power supplies, and that's just a fact.

Rifles vary. Virtually all of mine shoot markedly better when running full bore! So, I'm always certain to load exactly what I plan to load, and no more. I've never found any rife that shots well "loaded down" unless I go to a faster, less than optimum powder. Seems that most powders burn more consistant at normal design pressures while reduced pressures give greater Extreme Spreads and less accuracy. For me anyway, YMMV.

Gravity seems to be quite reliable tho. My oldest scale, the 1010 (well it's actually a Lyman M5 but it's the same Ohaus scale with minor changes as the current 1010) has been reading exactly the same with the same test weight since 1965 so accuracy and repeatability are unchanged. I am, or was, a "professonal" calibrator of electonic scales for some years and I did reset the gain of many scales during that period to keep them within tolerance. But I've NEVER had to change anything on either of my (three) beam scales, there is simply nothing to go bad unless I hammer them!

If all that is hair splitting, seems to be some pretty large hairs with clearly defined black and white sides!

But, digital scale makers gotta earn a living too, buy one if you are willing to help them out!

Last edited by boomtube; 10-28-2009 at 03:28 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2009, 04:50 PM
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Re: Beams or Digital?

I agree completely with WRG
No matter how poor or precise your scale, you will not charge to better than single granule.
My CM1500 easily indicates single granule changes. And after tuning and alot of test comparisons with an Acculab, I am very confident that my charges really are to single granule.

I have a 10-10, Dillon D-Terminator, CM1500, and Acculab VIC-123.
My Acculab has highest resolution
My 10-10 has lowest resolution
My Dillon was for many years, the best digital 'reloading scale' available(continous read in GRAINS)
My CM1500 is now the best charging system overall, and it's scale betters the Dillon slightly.

When I say 'overall', it is with reference to hands down -the most 'accurate charging system' (Prometheus).
Wen you take everything into account, all roads lead to ChargeMaster.
It's fast, easy to use, less finicky, accurate, cheap, easy powder changes, and totally practical.
Overpriced?? I would have paid triple the price I paid.
And I would be using a Prometheus if it were better 'Overall'.
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:16 PM
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Re: Beams or Digital?

What many do not know or have not taken the time to learn is that the 1500 is a highly accurate powder THROWER. IOW after calibrating (it comes with 2 ea 50 gr weights) then set it to THROW a little lower; .4 gr with stick powders like IMR4831, .3 gr with short cuts like RL22 or .1 gr lower with ball powders like H380.

For instance in this set of pics I want to load 60 gr RL22, so I set the dispense to 59.7 gr


after the machine runs and beeps, WAIT 5 SECONDS, and it will display the exact amount dispensed, in this case 59.9 gr


It is then a simple thing to dislodge a couple of granules from the end of the tube to get exactly what you want


The main thing is that EVERYTIME after calibrating my pan weighs EXACTLY 155.0 gr, after rezeroing and when I pick the pan up to load the powder in the case the readout reads -155.0 gr EXACTLY EVERYTIME. When I set the empty pan back on the machine it rezero's EVERYTIME for the past 3 years through 1000's of loads.

Another thing is that when I finish charging the cases I am through seating the bullets because I seat the last case while the dispenser is going and have the next one set up in the press. Saves a lot of time.

I wouldn't be without the 1500.
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:40 PM
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Re: Beams or Digital?

"Electronics are rarely long term repeatable, not precisely so anyway. Those tiny components change as they age, especially in the power supplies, and that's just a fact. "

Wait awhile, they will age.

And don't get me wrong. As I said before, those who like them love them. I don't but I'm truly happy for all who do. I just don't find using a manual measure and my beam scale all the much trouble and I TRUST it!
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:06 PM
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Re: Beams or Digital?

Great points Woods.
With mine I have tuned the program, preweighted to linearity, installed 'the straw' mod, and wired in a potentiometer for different powder settings. This gets me well within .1gr .
I can punch what I want, hit dispense & seat the last charged case like you do.

On the beep, I pick up & re-set the pan(disturb the reading) for a proof read. I have gotten where I can sense a single granule off by the way the scale settles, rounds the value, & locks in.
For example, if I dispense 47.4gr, disturb the pan, and watch it go right to and hold 47.3 for a few seconds before changing to 47.4, I know I'm a granule low. So I pick one from another pan & drop it in, then re-set the pan again. Now it will go right to 47.4 and hold.
It rounds down the same(with the same timing).

There are plenty of excellent scales out there with higher resolution. But they need to be enclosed to read correctly, and re-zero'd constantly. When you get down to ~.02gr resolution without an enclosure, you have to shutdown the ventilation, make anyone moving in the house move on out the door, and condition the scale power. The Prometheus is basically an enclosed version of the ChargeMaster, so it goes more accurate than needed. No prize for that on my bench though.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:10 PM
WRG WRG is offline
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Re: Beams or Digital?

mikecr & woods, I was hoping sooner or later that someone would chime in and back me up here. Those of us who own one already know just how good a product they really are. But if it wasn't for guy's like us to field test equipment like this, the "others" wouldn't have any way of knowing. This scale repeats it's self everytime without fail and I rely on it totally. You guys really put it best so I'll leave it at that!


Note*
There is a little trick using a Mcdonald straw on the end of the trickler that really is the cats ***** for stopping over throughn charges. Check out my previous post.

WRG
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:34 PM
WRG WRG is offline
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Re: Beams or Digital?

Oh and how could we foreget, you can program in up to, I think its 30 of your favorite loads. Tell me, what beam scale can do that?
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