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Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

 
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  #22  
Old 03-09-2013, 08:48 PM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Have you sat on those bullets for a while ?... I have the Berger reloading manual first edition, and it looks like it was printed in 2012. I picked it up at Cabelas a while ago after I had bought some of their VLD's.

There are 2 pages of loads for the 243 Win. Both pages recommend COAL of 2.710" which I believe is the SAMI standard, not anything that has bullets seated longer. I did all of my loads to that length and they shot beautifully. If one gets the throat lengthened, then it would allow seating the bullets longer, to the point that it would still fit in the magazine. My Savage magazine still has plenty of room so I can go 0.04-0.08" longer and it will still feed and function.

This list is just for information. It should match anything you got from Berger. The powders are listed by maximum charge weight. All assume the same COAL of 2.710"

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  #23  
Old 03-10-2013, 01:05 AM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Everybody to ther own opinions but I will say from over 25 yrs of reloading and the little I have learned..... Bullet seating depth is THE MOST CRITICAL THING!!!!!! Im not talking MOA groups. Im talking 1/2 or less MOA groups!!! Also you have to go by ogive!!!!! Tip to base means nothing because bullets are not uniform in that way!! Anyone tht says seating depth doesent mater either hasent set up many guns for long distance or has been lucky enough to have guns tht are great shooters ( I have seen a few of those). Every gun will not shoot the same bullet great!!! I have loaded enough to know certain calibers ( that I have set up) most likely shoot certain bullets best. This is not 100%. If you have a really great shooting gun!!! it will shoot a certain bullet within 1/2 moa with anything yo put in it(powder bullet amount of powder and seating dept).I have seen one of those in 25 yrs!!! Im sure there are several more. If yoiu are trying to find the best load (and I mean the very best load) its all trial and error with all components. IF your happy with 1 MOA then thats not to hard to get. Try going from 1 MOA to 1/4 moa and thats a different game!!! IF you want the best perfection you can achieve..... then every thing matters in every way!!!! Call me a perfectionist but its true!!!! I just want to be the best I can be at what ever I do!
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2013, 08:30 AM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

I bought some of the Berger VLD 95 to try in my 243 1:10 twist. I don't know if they will shoot or not. The Berger calculator gave them a 1.09 factor using my info. 1.00 to 1.50 is moderately stable it says. I have only fired on test group so far. Measured 7/8". Will let you know if the next test groups shoot better.
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:05 AM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Robert, to verify which bullet you have, the "Classic Hunter" is 1.070" long, whereas the "VLD hunting" is 1.150" long. This is just a stability question, the same powder loads would work for either. The VLD has a longer point so would actually have a longer jump to the lands if loaded to the same COAL.

Only you can decide when enough is enough... My chamber is an Ackley Improved and there are no loads listed in the reloading handbook, but obviously they would be higher than the "regular" 243 Win. I am interested in seating my bullets longer, mainly to improve case capacity and reduce peak pressure. I do not want to be jamming my bullets into the lands, because that is exactly where it becomes imperative to have special bullet seaters which pick up the position of the bullet closer to the tangent point so that land engagement becomes more consistent. I think if my rifle consistently shoots 1/2 MOA it is enough for me at this point in my life.

If I run into the lands before I run out of magazine length, I will probably buy a throating reamer and lengthen the throat, since I have no interest in shooting light bullets in this rifle. Once you invest in a Savage barrel nut wrench and one of the NSS receiver wrenches, you will be able to do all of your own gunsmithing and it saves a ton of money. Many smiths charge nearly as much to fit your pre-machined barrel as what you paid for it !
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  #26  
Old 03-11-2013, 10:19 AM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Hi Westcliffe01

The bullet I have mics to 1.070 inches which is the classic hunter. The box says for 1:10 twist or shorter. I did not purchase the VLD because of the stability issue. I used several tools from

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/calculators.shtml

to estimate the Miller Stability Coefficient and this bullet for my twist rate, elevation and mean temperature had a predicted value of 1.43 which according to the literature any number from 1.3 to 2.0 is acceptable. I understand the US Military uses a value from 1.5 to 2.0 for their work.

The area I live has a quite a few windy days so ballistic coefficient is important to me. I did a sensitivity analysis using the above web site for the published G1 value of 0.427 as compared to a much lighter bullet and there was a factor of 2 for bullet drop versus a factor of 4 for deflection. That is my rationale for choosing this bullet.

You quoted in your response

'I am interested in seating my bullets longer, mainly to improve case capacity and reduce peak pressure. I do not want to be jamming my bullets into the lands, because that is exactly where it becomes imperative to have special bullet seaters which pick up the position of the bullet closer to the tangent point so that land engagement becomes more consistent.'

That was my rationale. For volume I used the water technique and found a mean of 52.0 grains with a range of 52.2 to 52.3 grains which makes me wonder just how important this is for smaller cases. To obtain the volume occupied by the bullet I added the case length (2.032) and bullet length (1.07) then subtracted the overall COL (2.695) which is 0.407 inches for bullet seating. I used a blank case and cut two slits in the side inserted a bullet and closed the bolt slowly. I then removed the cartridge and measured the length and checked to make sure it would function in my magazine. There were light marks on the bullet and I used a bullet comparator to obtain a just touching the lands seating depth.

Next calculate the area of the bullet's cross section. For a .243 diameter bullet, that is (0.2432 4) x 3.1416 = 0.0464 square inches. Multiply that area by the seating depth gives you the volume 0.0188 of the case occupied by the bullet, but it is in cubic inches. To convert cubic inches to grains of water, multiply by 252.8 grains of water per cubic inch which is 4.774 grains. Then subtract from case volume 52.0 4.774 = 47.23 grains. This a little off because the Berger bullet is a boat tail. I assume this is the maximum capacity before a compressed load is obtained. And from the literature at least 80% case capacity is necessary with powder so the minimum charge would be 47 x .8 or 38 grains.

Robert
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  #27  
Old 03-11-2013, 11:29 AM
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Do yourself a favor and get the Berger reloading manual. They have entire sections which discuss the problems of getting consistent bullet to land position, and also the importance of seating bullets long, since in doing so it is equivalent to working with a larger cartridge capacity. The book is well worth the money, there is a lot of historical stuff in it. Bear in mind that the company founder was a fanatical bench rest shooter where they are going for sub 1/4MOA grouping. I am not quite so fanatical, but if we use other peoples lessons we can save ourselves quite a bit of time and frustration.
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2013, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: Advice on bullet seating depth Berger 95 grain hybrid

Westcliffe01I have to go into town today to pick up some horse feed and then stop at the gun center to buy the manual. Robert
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