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Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

 
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  #1  
Old 09-21-2006, 10:47 AM
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Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

Setting up for either 30-06 or 30-06 Ackley.

I should have my new 26" Lilja 30 cal barrel arriving w/in the next few weeks. Then i'm having Ian Jensen, gunsmith at Barnes Bullets chamber, threat and mount it in my "lightened" Rem 700 action. Still undecided on 30-06 or 30-06 Ackley.

That's not my topic of this post.

After much research, I've decided to try and following Abinooks's musing about Lee collet dies.

So, by the numbers.

I use the Lee collet die in 30-06 for seating. Tear it apart when it arrives, check it over for burrs and remove any if they exist; lube and reassemble. Probably order the extra decapping mandrels in sizes .3045" and .3035" if needed later.

Eventually order a Redding body sizing die for controling shoulder length when needed.

Take my Forster Ultra seater in 30-06 and if I go w/ the Ackely version, have Forster send me a new floating chamber in Ackley.

Did get it correclty?
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Old 09-21-2006, 05:07 PM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

Hey GSSP,

I'm not Adam ( Abinok ) but I can offer some things re: your post and if I don't get it right Adam will straighten it out " dreckly "

The Lee collet dies are marvelous inventions . They allow you to neck size only and this is a full neck size ,not just down a bit stopping short of the shoulder . Another plus is that no lube is needed for this operation .However .............................there is one thing they don't do and that is seat bullets [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I am sure you meant size as you mention seater dies right after , just could'nt resist [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

the mandrel that comes with the collet die gives consistent 4 thou neck tension in my 300 winnie and 243 AI . I realize you may want to " speriment" a bit but I would try the std. mandrel first . Also , I don't use the mandrel for depriming , I break the deprime stem off as I use a universal depriming die from RCBS . It doesn't touch the brass and I can deprime and then put the brass in my case polisher BEFORE it goes in the collet die . Saves a lot of wear and tear on the brass and the collet die .

One more note regarding the collet dies.
The press pressure required to properly size a case using a collet die is no where near as much as you may be initially inclined to exert . I suggest placing a caase in the press and running the case in the die with light pressure then check the inside case mouth with a dial mic to see what your case mouth ID is . As I said earlier you will get bout 4 thou tension with the mandrel as supplied . I feel this is a good amount for consistent ignition , especially a s your hunting with the rounds . Try the same case again with a bit more pressure and mic again to see if you changed anything ( I size the case , then rotate the case 180 degrees , then size again as suggested by Mr. Lee for maximum case neck consistency .

Keep them clean as a bit of brass of other undesirable material can cause the collet to stick closed and you will notice the problem right away as the case will not want to go into the collet die on the down stroke .

There a lot of other things you can learn about your brass when using the collet dies , but I am tired of pecking the keys at this point so I won't go there . Perhaps some speedy typers using them will step in a bit .

You will love them I do believe !

Jim B.

P.S. Go with the Ackley 30- 06 , it is way cooler to look at and you will see some gains
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:33 PM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

Jim,

1st off, thanks so much for the edumacation.

2nd off, whoops! Mispelled Abinok as well as my other follies.

I too, do not decap with the dies decapper. Use a universal decapper and clean the case after.

I'll withhold from purchasing the additional decapping mandrels until futher use proves I need them.

I assume you were starting to refer to work hardened brass not sizing the neck to sufficient diameters to hold the bullet securely enough thus leading to either tossing the brass if its the cheap stuff or annealing for the costly brass.

Having a hard time convincing myself to go w/ the Ackley.

At a difference of 100 fps (30-06 w/26",2800 fps vs AI w/ same 26",2900 fps), it's only 82 fps, 136 FPE, .66" 10 mph wind drift and 3.21" impact difference; all at 500 yds with 180 Nosler Partition.

For the extra cost of the dies to reload the AI, I could buy 500 Partition 2nd's.
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Old 09-22-2006, 05:51 PM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

GSSP,

One thing I left out is the Lee seater die once set up for the length you want seats them straight . The Lee deluxe die set with collet die , sizer and seater costs what ? 22 bucks or so .

Also in most Ackleyized cases the brass doesnt hardly grow at all after the initial firefoming and trim to length is done. Saves the trimming chore.

As far as the edumacation thing you cant get that from me as I don't got some [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I reckon I could be getting that from you on this reloading biz . Was simply sharing what meager info I have .

I reckon I was pushing the AI simply for the " fun " factor more than solid gains . If you haven't done an AI case it is a good chance to do so . Pulling that fireformed brass out as you shoot it is like opening presents [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Whatever you do tell about the results ,
Jim B.
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Old 09-23-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

I see im a little late to the party, but yep, youve pretty much got my version of the menu down. Ill second the mention on the seater as well. If you allow the bullet to pickup the seater, and recenter, it will seat no worse than the runout of the case neck... which if your chamber is straight... and youre sizing with the collet die... that will be very straight indeed.

Jimm, Youre getting .004" tension with the stock mandrel?
Are you sure you are measuring expansion on bullet seating (sized with no bullet minus with a bullet seated) and not fired to sized dimensions? .004" is what id expect to see fired to sized, but ive never seen more than .002" expansion on seating with cases sized with the stock mandrel. Most fall between .001" and .0015". Stock mandrel diameter should be .3055"

If yours is sizing to .004" (Mandrel diameter .3025" or so) somebody got a little shaving happy on the lathe at lee [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
On a side note, 243AI brass if pileing up rapidly, still got about 500-600rds of 300WM, 7mm, and 243 to load by next weekend... here doggie doggie... Email headed your way.
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Old 09-24-2006, 08:22 AM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

Adam,

My bad [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img], you are correct ,not 4 thou tension ,but a little less than half that . Mandrel is at .3045 . Adding both sides I guess is what I was doing . [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Reckon that means I shouldn't be planning a Wyooming trip at the same time I am posting [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Jim B.
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  #7  
Old 09-25-2006, 12:58 PM
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Re: Abinook, Making sure I got the die set up correctly

Dangerous to get a guy all excited and put him behind the wheel... or sometimes the keyboard [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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