Long Range Hunting Online Magazine 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???
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# 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

#1
03-03-2012, 06:51 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 596
5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

How many shots are appropriate for determining the ES/SD for a particular load? I would guess 5 but know that many don't like to shoot 5 shot strings down their custom barrels. If you are one of these people do you make an exception in this case or do you stick with 3 shots? Is that enough?
#2
03-03-2012, 07:14 PM
 Silver Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NM Posts: 160
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

From a mathematical standpoint, I believe 10 or more is appropriate for determining SD
#3
03-03-2012, 07:21 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NW MT Posts: 2,356
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

The more you shoot the better your info will be. The program is trying to give you numbers based on 100 without shooting 100 rounds. Dont heat up barrel and shoot all you want.
#4
03-03-2012, 09:13 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 596
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

I realize that 10 would be more feedback as would 100 but for a fair comparison I'm wondering when everyone on here is posting their ES is there a standard so that as we compare it is apples to apples? I heard once that keeping track of ES in 5 shot increments is the "right way". So even if you shoot 20rds of the same load you would have 4 ES readings that should all be close. I guess the reason for this as opposed to 1 ES of 20 is that things like temp could change over the course of a day of shooting which could show inconsistent results. 20 was a bad example but 100 would be a better example. I typically clean after 20 so it would take all day for me to get to 100.
#5
03-03-2012, 09:27 PM
 Platinum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 4,944
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

I like to shoot a minimum of 3 shots to see if I'm wasting my time, and if SDs are below
12, I will continue for 8 to 10 rounds to verify that it is a good load.

If I start and get more than 15 SDs I discontinue testing that load and pull the bullets to reload them.

As you said there is no reason to shoot a lot of poor loads in a custom barrel so I look for the
best SDs and then make slight changes to see if I can improve it.

J E CUSTOM
__________________
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#6
03-03-2012, 09:29 PM
 Gold Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 564
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

unless you don't have access to a range that's at least 600 yards, I wouldn't worry with chronograph numbers.

the target is, and always will be, the final arbiter.

chronographs are not perfect, and they'll throw the occasional lulu at you... and even loads with very tight numbers will not always group well, as most of us know.

as to groups... if you're dealing with an overbore cartridge that's hard on barrels, shoot 3 shots. if they land tight, call that group good. then move out farther, for successive groups until you've reached the longest distance you plan to shoot. perhaps you've heard the old mantra--to which there is a lot of truth--3 shots tests the rifle and load, 5 shots test the shooter. obviously there can be exceptions to this...

...but you don't want to be one of these guys that burns the throat out of their barrel shooting aggregates to impress the BR glitterati and then when you finally find a useful, real world purpose for the rifle its barrel is near shot out. bad juju death by hum-foo-foo... :o

Dan
#7
03-04-2012, 02:40 AM
 Silver Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 354
Re: 5 or 3 shot group when determining ES/SD???

I agree with green. Your main objective is getting the load with the least amount of vertical. Ladder test and ocw can tell you this without a chrono because of other factors like harmonics. Let the target show you what it likes, chronos are unreliable at best unless you get an oehler.

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