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338 lapua oal reloading

 
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2013, 08:12 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

WHOA......First off, you either have a neck tension issue or gorrila hands.

You should not be able to 'slide' the pill into the case when closing the bolt normally.

Your neck tension is way too loose if you can. It's on the lands if it's 'sliding' into the case neck. If it is, measure the COAL by removing the case and pill after 'sliding' it into the case and closing the bolt. That will be loaded to the lands, if it don't go any farther (you will see tiny rifling marks on the bullet ogive where it contacts the rifling at the end of the throat). You are determining COAL the hard way but it will be a valid measurement for that particular pill....and ONLY that pill.

Different bullets have different shaped ogives and different shaped ogives enter the throat area at different lengths depending on that ogive and bullet length itself...

Back to the neck tension thing.... Its imperative that the neck of the case holds the pill tightly enough that rifle recoil don't move it and it don't move jostling around in your coat pocket either....

You are loose as a goose.....

Now, what kind/type of reloading dies do you have and describe the way you size the brass and seat the pills......

Meanwhile, I'll get my popcorn in the microwave....
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2013, 08:14 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

Additionally, some rifles shoot well 'loaded to the lands' some don't and the only way to determine that is by doing a load ladder but lets get through the neck tension first....
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  #10  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:56 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

[QUOTE=SidecarFlip;875684]WHOA......First off, you either have a neck tension issue or gorrila hands.

You should not be able to 'slide' the pill into the case when closing the bolt normally.

Your neck tension is way too loose if you can. It's on the lands if it's 'sliding' into the case neck. If it is, measure the COAL by removing the case and pill after 'sliding' it into the case and closing the bolt. That will be loaded to the lands, if it don't go any farther (you will see tiny rifling marks on the bullet ogive where it contacts the rifling at the end of the throat). You are determining COAL the hard way but it will be a valid measurement for that particular pill....and ONLY that pill.

Different bullets have different shaped ogives and different shaped ogives enter the throat area at different lengths depending on that ogive and bullet length itself...

Back to the neck tension thing.... Its imperative that the neck of the case holds the pill tightly enough that rifle recoil don't move it and it don't move jostling around in your coat pocket either....

You are loose as a goose.....

Now, what kind/type of reloading dies do you have and describe the way you size the brass and seat the pills......

Meanwhile, I'll get my popcorn in the microwave....[/QUOTE
first off I have the lynman 3 die set, I adjust my dies by letting the shell holder go all the way in the up position and screw the die down until it makes contact... I than lube the brass and I size the brass by pushing down on the press(rcbs) after that I trim to length, deburr the brass,I than put the bullet seater die in and I set the bullet on top of the brass and I push the handle down(the die is set to my desired length already) is it possible that I could be deburring the brass to much making the brass neck to thin?
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:09 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

it seems like I never had had the problem with the bullet sliding in until I started sizing my brass wich I use a lynman case trimmer to trim.. Before hand if I had my pills seated to long the bolt just wouldn't be able to close down
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:44 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

Quote:
Originally Posted by deerslayer1435 View Post
it seems like I never had had the problem with the bullet sliding in until I started sizing my brass wich I use a lynman case trimmer to trim.. Before hand if I had my pills seated to long the bolt just wouldn't be able to close down
Interesting.

I had a Redding and sold it BTW. I presume the Redding and the Lyman both use an insert pilot that goes in the neck to align the case for trimming...

If so, are you using the correct pilot?

I typed out a rather long reply and lost it. Sometimes this site irritates me...

Some questions that will allow us to deduce whats happening other than too big of a pilot on your trimmer...

1. What brand is the brass?

2. How many times have you loaded them?

3. Are your dies bushing dies or fixed cavity dies?

4. What position is the expander ball in, high or low?

5. Do you FL size or Neck size?

Don't worry about the bolt blowing back, it won't no matter how much overpressure/overcharge you have. All modern receivers have cross drilled vent holes to let an overpressure out if the case fails. You will probably uchre the action but you won't rearrange your face.

Something is fishy ir you are Charlie Atlas when you close your bolt....
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2013, 10:31 AM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
Interesting.

I had a Redding and sold it BTW. I presume the Redding and the Lyman both use an insert pilot that goes in the neck to align the case for trimming...

If so, are you using the correct pilot?

I typed out a rather long reply and lost it. Sometimes this site irritates me...

Some questions that will allow us to deduce whats happening other than too big of a pilot on your trimmer...

1. What brand is the brass?

2. How many times have you loaded them?

3. Are your dies bushing dies or fixed cavity dies?

4. What position is the expander ball in, high or low?

5. Do you FL size or Neck size?

Don't worry about the bolt blowing back, it won't no matter how much overpressure/overcharge you have. All modern receivers have cross drilled vent holes to let an overpressure out if the case fails. You will probably uchre the action but you won't rearrange your face.

Something is fishy ir you are Charlie Atlas when you close your bolt....
First of as a inexperienced reloader I want to thank you for your time and help.. I am using actual lapua brass fired 2x at most. I am full length resizing the brass as for question 3 and 4 I'm not sure I think it is a bushing and I don't no if its in the high or low position and didn't no it could be changed but when I get home from work I will post a picture.. However last night I was exsperentimg and made sure I had the right pilot as(and I did) I took a never fired lapua bras and loaded it to a very long length of 3.70 and tried to put it in the chamber to see if it would slide the bullet in however the bullet would not slide and of course the bolt would not close! So I kept pressing the bullet down till it reached a length of 3.65 and when I would go to close the bolt at that length it was short enough to allow the bolt of the rifle to maybe used as if it was a press, pressing the bullet down to 3.54 inches wich is what my book says to use as a oal. I then took a rubber mallet and tried to see if I was able to hit the pill and make it seat farther and I was unable to unless I used great force.. So with that said I'm lost unless the bolt is being used as a press.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2013, 12:37 PM
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Re: 338 lapua oal reloading

If it's a bushing die. the bushing fits inside the die body and is removable and you need to size your neck to your pill and order the appropriate sized bushings. Bushing dies are considerably more expensive than a fixed cavity die, like 2 times as much so, if you paid less than a hundred bucks for the die set (new) it will be fixed cavity.

If it is a bushing die and you haven't calculated the diameter of the pill versus the neck diameter of the case, you probably have the incorrect bushing installed.... but I don 't think you have a bushing die, I think it's fixed cavity.

The reason I ask about the expander ball has to do with it's relative position in the die itself. You want the ball to expand the inside of the neck BEFORE the neck reaches the upper cavity and the outside gets sized. one reason I always remove the decapping pins from all my dies and use a dedicated decapper die plus a dedicated decap die has a much stronger decap assembly so you rarely break pins. I use a Lyman BTW.

If, the expander ball is HIGH in the die cavity, it elongates the neck an excessive amount because it's working the neck brass against the inner diameter of the upper cavity. Consequently, your cases grow excessively, you trim the cases to over all length and the necks get progressively thinner, eventually craking. The metal goes somewhere. In this case you are trimming it off and the neck gets thinner and thinner.

As a rule (and I can get disputed on that on this forum), I myself don't ever use a neck sizer die. It stays in the box if it came as a set. I tend to buy dies one at a time and so I don't buy neck dies if I don't have to. Reason being, a neck die only resizes the neck and shoulder datum area. You want to resize the body as well (which goes against the grain on fireforming brass) but again thats how I do it.

The Lapua case is an abnormality in itself because of the length and diameter versus generated pressure upon ignition. To that end, you are right against the benchmark for annealing and annealing properly is a whole other subject.

Even with a fixed cavity die, it's possible to alter the neck tension by reducing the diameter of the expander ball with fine crocus cloth or even fine steel wool (depending on how much you want to reduce it and increase neck tension, however, after the first firing and subsequent resize, the neck is starting to workharden and won't be as ductile as it was when the case was virgin brass.

With any die, bushing or fixed cavity, you can 'bump' the shoulders back. You can get a dedicated bump die but all dies for bottleneck cases will bump shoulders back. oftentimes too much. The more you bump the shoulder back, the farther the case neck end, intrudes into the throat and that intrusion can cause hard ejection or no ejection at all in the case of a tight chamber.

Lots of things going on.
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