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308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

 
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  #22  
Old 04-21-2013, 02:42 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

SidecarFlip, given the fact that I have designed and built swaging machines that can swage stainless steel tubing up to a little more than 14" in diameter to within 0.001-2" (individual target size that may vary up to nearly 1/2" in overall diameter), I am somewhat biased about swaging materials if I can, instead of cutting them.

I just got my die in the mail yesterday from the folks at CH4D reloading in Sandusky OH. Just about 15 minutes ago, I finished running all the crimped brass through it. I will admit that after the first couple of cases, I took the mandrel out the die and polished it to a mirror finish with some diamond compound I had on hand. Finish is important on any metal displacing piece of hardware. It took just a couple of seconds per case to swage. The way their die is setup you load the case on top of the die, so outside the press itself. That alone makes the process faster since you don't have to negotiate the confines of the press. Mine is a Hornady Lock N Load aluminum framed press, so its not very big/spacious.

I was surprised how much the tightness of the pockets varied. About 10% had a very tight pocket and it took a lot more force to swage.

Now I just have to do the length trim and find some powder. And wait for my savage 308 to arrive at my FFL...

What do you have against collet dies ? What could be more consistent than clamping brass against a polished steel rod of the appropriate diameter ? My full length dies produce necks that are tapered. The neck is always smaller at the bottom near the shoulder than at the top at the mouth. To each his own..

Are you suggesting something might let go from the pie pan annealing ? It seems that NOT annealing might be more prone to letting the flame out where it should not, as opposed to imperfect annealing.

I would like an automated annealing setup, but that will have to wait until my savings recover...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SidecarFlip View Post
According to both the Sierra, the Hornady and Berger reloading manuals, all recommend Federal 210 or 210M primers and Sierra recommends a 1.5 grain reduction in load for mil brass.

By collet die, I presume you refer to Lee. You won't find any Lee dies on my shelf except for straight wall cases.

Glad I don't pie pan anneal. Be apprised, those little holes in your receiver let the flame out when things get stupid without blowing back in your face.....
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  #23  
Old 04-21-2013, 04:31 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Well, I'm home now and all my cases (except 4 of the 500 passed muster). All resized, trimmed, pockets reamed and chamfered, primed and in the plastic (kitty litter) jug on the shelf until I need them (primed with the Sierra recomended primers BTW).

The 4 that didn't pass muster, I pulled the rims off resizing. No biggie. I just trundle over to the hydraulic broach press, pull the top nut, run the fixing sleeve out and push the case and expander ball rod out. Takes 30 seconds tops.

Interestingly, they were all over the place both in COAL (after F/L resize) and body diameter. Not now. All are 2.005 +/- 0.003.

My take on annealing brass is, I never attempted the 'pie pan' method, it's inconsistencies are too great. Annealing a case mouth and getting it too soft is an exercise in disaster. Spend the money and get consistency. If you don't have the money, don't tempt fate by being cheap. It's your face behind the chamber...... not mine.

No, I don't like collet dies but thats my preference. I like bushing dies because the concentricity of the neck in a bottleneck cartridge is controlled by the bushing as is the tension applied to the neck to secure the projectile.

Dillon makes a dandy primer pocker swager as well as RCBS but I prefer the traditional method of a 60 degree chatterless countersink, but the I chuck them in the lathe and play chango-swithcho. Takes no time at all.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine. However, you'll never catch me playing Pie-Pan Russian Roulette.

You'll know when you get a bad one, real fast..... I might read about you in the Adrian Telegram.......

Have fun. Just ordered 4 eight pound jugs of H1000. Never have enough.
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2013, 04:54 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Where do you get your powder ? Somewhere you can pick up in store ?
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  #25  
Old 04-21-2013, 06:16 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcliffe01 View Post
Where do you get your powder ? Somewhere you can pick up in store ?
I wish. No one around here even sells 8 pound jugs and I never buy one pound anything except Tite-Group for pistols and Accurate (Western) for the wuzzleloader.

With the preeusre cooker thing, I fully expect that the Wahington Cabal will find a way to make even Accurate and Pyrodex hard to get...lol

No, online. Like the brass at Wideners, I make it a daily ritual to peruse all the suppliers and BINGO, there it was so I grabbed a few jugs. Frankly, it's tedious, like buying lottery tickets. Lots of duds but that one good one.......

Primers are another story. I'm thankful I have thousands on the shelf, but if I see any, I'll vacuum them up.

I'm just curious what all the thousands of new firearm buyers are shooting. There ain't squat ammunition wise to be had from what I see.

A gun without ammunition is like having an expensive club.

When you get your new Savage it will have the holes in the receiver, on both sides. That lets the fire out the sides instead of back...lol
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  #26  
Old 04-21-2013, 06:49 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Oh well... I just backordered some RL 15, some CCI 400 primers and some CCI #34 Mil spec LR primers. Hopefully I get it before winter... I am reasonably set for my 223 and 243 stuff (both for bolt guns only) but am now trying to set up a stash for my FAL as well as the 308 bolt gun.

The bolt gun at this stage will now only see the Lapua Palma brass for the rest of its life and the FAL is going to be fed the LC brass with the 175gr Match Kings. Speaking of which I need to get a pin gauge set ordered to determine what size locking shoulder I need for the FAL.

I'm still waiting on an NAA 22mag revolver I ordered in January... Said it was in stock at the time...
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  #27  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:07 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

I buy all my firearms in one place, no exceptions, (well with the exception of the CVA Accura that I got at Cabelas on points).

I have a good friend who owns a gun shop and range just south of Detroit off I75. It's a haul for me but I like to patronize the same place and he always gives me a good price. Anyway, I've had 2 spare magazines for my 338 on order since January but again, no hurry. I'm not going anywhere...for a while.

All the 308's are primed and put to bed for now.
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  #28  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:08 PM
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Re: 308 LC 12 brass - primed: OK it is UGLY - BUYER beware

Crap, Power valley first accepted my backorder (the items were clearly listed as not being in stock, but you could still buy them) then I called them today to check on whether they had "really" accepted my order as a backorder and was told that it had been canceled. No email notification, nothing...

It looks like this issue with powder had been anticipated back in 2010.

Loss of Smokeless Powder Greatest Threat to Keep & Bear Arms

quote
Washington, DC --(Ammoland.com)- Without ammunition, our firearms are just awkward clubs, and our cherished right to Keep and Bear Arms is worthless – literally worth nothing.


Let me explain this threat.
To the best of my information, there are only two plants in the United States that manufacture smokeless propellant to load ammunition for our firearms. All else is imported, from Canada, Scandinavia, Europe, Israel, and Australia primarily.
These two plants are both owned by giant defense and government contractors for whom sales of powder for civilian ammunition consumption is but a tiny fraction of their business.


One is the General Dynamics plant in St. Marks, Florida, which produces for Hodgden, Winchester and others, and the Alliant plant in Connecticut which produces for the Alliant family of companies and for the Lake City Arsenal (currently under Alliant management).

If Obama were to instruct his appointed Secretary of Defense to quietly lean on these defense contractors to quit selling smokeless powder for civilian consumption or put their next contract for an aircraft carrier at risk, I believe they’d bail on civilian powder sales in a heartbeat. And, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton could end smokeless powder imports tomorrow with a stroke of her pen.


Does this not seem to resemble the current situation pretty well ?


Is it not remarkable that not a single supplier from a location outside the US has been able to make good of a situation which would make them a LOT of money compared to regular business ? While I could understand that potential DHS orders could suck up capacity of domestic suppliers, why is it that the Fins, germans, Russians etc are not cashing in on the current crisis ?
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